Volatile emollient substitution for cyclomethicone

I have a question about usage of Cetiol® Ultimate - Undecane (and) Tridecane

Recommendation is 2 – 15 %

What if I want to use it at around 35 - 40 %?

 

I want to sub cyclomethicone in biphasic makeup remover with something sound greener.


So I looked at Cetiol Ultimate - Undecane (and) Tridecane and Purolan IDD - Isododecane.

 

The highest % recommendation usage is 15% and 25%, so if I use both I would get to 40% I want but if possible using 1 ingredient would be easier when dealing with supplier than 2.

C11-13 Isoparaffin which can be used at 40% was suggested but I don't think it would look good on the label. 


The bottle is PET so it shouldn’t be compatibility problem but will have to test.

 

I searched through the forum and found 


EVchem said:
 I have ultimate and aerosil 200 (silica). I eyeballed and ended up  with ~ 4% silica and it made a pretty stiff gel so I'd say yes it will work fine!

So my question is, is there a reason why can't Undecane (and) Tridecane or Isododecane be use at 40%? 

Or it can be used since liquid lipstick would have high % of Isododecane if I'm not mistaken (sorry I have nearly zero knowledge in colour cosmetics field).

I tried Isododecane neat on my skin for 10 days and it didn't feel irritating or something.

I'm waiting for Cetiol® Ultimate sample.


Sorry for this silly question, any suggestion is appreciated.

Comments

  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    I tried Cetiol Ultimate neat and it's a bit like a solvent (wait-a-minute! It IS a solvent :smiley: ). What I'm trying to say is that it removed all sebum from my skin and left the area where I've tried it white as if I had used acetone or white spirit. I suppose that this washing out effect may be corrected by adding emollients and oils.
    Does it feel like C5? Nope, not for me. The main things in common a user might notice is volatility and fast spreading, the rest is just not close enough.
  • PattsiPattsi Member
    Pharma said:
    I tried Cetiol Ultimate neat and it's a bit like a solvent (wait-a-minute! It IS a solvent :smiley: ). 
    Thank you @Pharma - I didn't know it's a solvent, they listed it as an emollient so I thought it's just a simple lipid phase ingredient.

    C11-13 Isoparaffin is also an alkane so it should be a solvent as well, no?

    That's why C5 was used I supposed.

    Pharma said:
    What I'm trying to say is that it removed all sebum from my skin and left the area where I've tried it white as if I had used acetone or white spirit. I suppose that this washing out effect may be corrected by adding emollients and oils.
    I didn't feel it must be because my marketer skin is too thick.

    Thank you very much   :) :) :)
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    Just remember, raw material suppliers are also marketers. You can't believe everything they say about their ingredients.  (Although you can believe some things)
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Silicon ois, volatile or not, are usually so lipophilic that they don't even dissolve oils and hence sebum properly. C5 is most of all a volatile inert filler whilst C11 (linear as well as 'iso') and the like will mix with oils and sebum at any proportion rendering these more liquid, hence the perceived emolliency.
    An emollient is, as far as I can tell, anything which isn't water and isn't doing anything else (e.g. emulsifying, preserving, colouring) in a formulation :wink: .
  • LeoLeo Member
    Has anyone used the Cetiol in a shampoo? Would the Cetiol have any effect on the foaming qualities of a shampoo? What would Cetiol do to the feel of a shampoo?
  • Leo said:
    Has anyone used the Cetiol in a shampoo? Would the Cetiol have any effect on the foaming qualities of a shampoo? What would Cetiol do to the feel of a shampoo?
    Cetiol is a line of products...you will need to be a little more specific. 
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    You mean Cetiol Ultimate? I think it's utter nonsense to add that to a shampoo, why would you?
    Yes, it would affect foaming quality and no, I don't think you'd profit from any feel enhancement (if you were to feel anything other than reduced foaming efficacy). It's not a full silicone oil substitute and certainly not in shampoos.
    For what it's worth: No, I did not try it in a shampoo because it simply doesn't make any sense.
  • LeoLeo Member
    @Pharma --Besides oils, what humectant(s) can be dissolved with Cetiol cc?Glycols and glycerol do not mix with Cetiol cc.
  • FormulatorFormulator Member
    edited March 10
    Leo said:
    @Pharma --Besides oils, what humectant(s) can be dissolved with Cetiol cc?Glycols and glycerol do not mix with Cetiol cc.
    Generally speaking, "oils" like cetiol cc don't mix with water-soluble ingredients like humectants. To combine them in one system, you need to formulate an emulsion or leave it as two phase system.
  • Pattsi, have you looked into Hemi Squalane (C13-15 Alkane?) It is often cited as a more natural alternative to Cyclomethicone, although I'm not sure if it's technically volatile. It's really a beautiful emollient though.
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    edited March 24
    I heard that some people don’t like cetiol ultimate. All skins are different of course but it’s absolutely fantastic in foundations (IMHO). Having said that, there are other emollients including octyldodecanol that is used to disperse pigments (Creasperse bb)
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