Green colorants with skin benefits?

ZinkZink Member
edited December 2014 in Formulating
I'm making a low pH facial cleanser formula and currently using powdered green tea as a colorant, but it's quite expensive. Any other good potentially beneficial green colorants that would go well in such a formula? I have green chromium oxide, but don't think it's beneficial.


Comments

  • otherhalfotherhalf Member
    On average cleansers don't stay on the skin for long enough to actually bring good benefits

    The most famous case in the field showed that you would have to leave the cleanser on for 2 minutes to have active effect.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22777224/?i=8&from=facial cleansers

    There is no particular info on the case of green tea:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25424055/?i=1&from=green tea topical skin


    In my opinion they would probably give you the same effect.
  • ZinkZink Member
    Still, we know that using a cleanser daily reduces acne lesion count by around 30% after two months and in one study two cleanser formulas performed differently - so I would not rule out that some actives can have an effect even if left on briefly.

    Choi, J. M., Lew, V. K., & Kimball, A. B. (2006). A Single‐Blinded, Randomized, Controlled Clinical Trial Evaluating the Effect of Face Washing on Acne Vulgaris. Pediatric dermatology, 23(5), 421-427.
    Fulghum, D. D., Catalano, P. M., Childers, R. C., Cullen, S. I., & Engel, M. F. (1982). Abrasive cleansing in the management of acne vulgaris. Archives of dermatology, 118(9), 658-659.
    Smith, R. N., Mann, N. J., Braue, A., Mäkeläinen, H., & Varigos, G. A. (2007). A low-glycemic-load diet improves symptoms in acne vulgaris patients: a randomized controlled trial. The American journal of clinical nutrition, 86(1), 107-115. 
    Abels, C., Reich, H., Knie, U., Werdier, D., & Lemmnitz, G. (2014). Significant improvement in mild acne following a twice daily application for 6 weeks of an acidic cleansing product (pH 4). Journal of cosmetic dermatology, 13(2), 103-108.
  • otherhalfotherhalf Member
    I am not arguing against the cleanser, just the green tea ah ah.
  • ZinkZink Member
    edited December 2014
    Sure, but I am saying that it could still have an effect even in a cleanser, we just don't know. In any case it imparts a very nice green color to it :) As one of the pantheol studies you cited in the other thread showed, 1% in a cleanser solution had a positive effect to TEWL 20 min after application. 
  • otherhalfotherhalf Member
    edited December 2014
    It is exactly because you don't know that you should not use it as a monetary leverage.

    The study shows that want seems to be a topical emulsion does when used post wash.


    I like my cosmetics to have supporting background, I just wish it wasn't just a gamble of should or could.

    Would you be willing to sponsor a study showing that your cleanser with green tea has any advantage over non green tea formulated cleansers?

    Also, for the purpose of critical thinking, the study is very poorly designed, they are studying panthenol versus nothing, when it should be panthenol versus other known humectant. They have no positivecontrol which makes the study a bit moot. Not to mention that the test subjects did not apply placebo vs concentration test, they applied concentration test vs other concentration test, which means there was no control for any of the subjects.

    So I don't quite understand, do you want to add these products to your cleanser because they are a formulation improvement or because they might be?

    It makes a huge difference for those on the consumer side.

    Panthenol needs to be shuttled through the cell membrane, needs to be converted from the alcohol for to the acid and finally needs to be shuttled to the mitochondria where it can act as a cofactor for co-enzymes. In the study they actually use a foam roller during the washes (I suppose to exfoliate the are to improve absorption post application). Some things just need a bit of time/right ph/right concentration. For the case of polyphenols I don't think there is data for that.


    Jojoba beads would be a great add-on to the formula or even some forms of clay.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    In the case referenced by Zink, the active ingredient in the pH 4.0 facial cleanser was Glycolic Acid which is an exfoliant, so you would expect an improvement as alpha and beta hydroxy acids (Salicylic Acid) help exfoliate dead skin cells and, in the case of Salicylic Acid, penetrates into the hair follicle, dissolves in the sebum, and lubricates the dead skin cells so they do not plug the hair follicle.

    The mechanism of green tea extracts is as an antioxidant.  I seriously doubt that powdered green tea in a cleanser will contain sufficient levels of ECGC and other polyphenols to have any significant effect on free radicals, particularly when it is in a rinse off product that stays on the skin for 15 to 30 seconds.  But, that said, it certainly cannot hurt and if it gives your product the color you're looking for, fine.

    Jojoba bead and or clay are not a good idea for acneic skin ... about the last thing you want to put on acneic skin is something containing an abrasive.    
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • otherhalfotherhalf Member
    Mark, I will have to disagree with you

    -Jojoba has one of the lowest comedogenic indexes and it is together with mineral oil, kukui and neem one of the best tolerated by acneic skins


    - Regarding abrasives, I don't know if you are using that as a tecnical term or the same way I understand it, anything that will help with keratinocite function will help, so, jojoba is both low comedogenic index and acceptable exfoliante given their bead sizes, and so are many of the kaolin and bentonite clays due to their sulphur content.

    Also I would consider abrasives, mandelic acid, glycolic acid, konjac sponges, Lactic Acid and the basic clarisonic and they are the some of the best resources for acneic skin.

  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    The issue with acneic skin is that you don't want to use a physical abrasive on it ... beads, scrubs, etc.

    Kaoliin and bentonite clays are fine as a masque as they absorb excess sebum and the sulfur is effective against P. Acnes.  But, again, my point being that you don't want to use these ingredients as physical abrasives in an acne cleanser.

    Chemical exfoliants such as alpha and beta hydroxy acids are just fine, Kaolin and Bentonite as masques are just fine.

    It's the terminology ... chemical exfoliants versus physical abrasives.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • otherhalfotherhalf Member
    @Marc

    These are mechanical exfoliants that are pretty ubiquitous :
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17173597/
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Otherhalf:

    Yes, I use them in my practice.  Sonicare devices are not physical abrasives.  The mechanism of action is sonic vibration which loosens the comedomes from the hair follicle ... no damage is done to the epidermis.  WIth physical abrasives, like beads, clays, powders ... the effect is like using sandpaper on wood.  You induce damage and inflammation ... exactly what you don't want to do with acneic skin. 
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • ZinkZink Member
    "So I don't quite understand, do you want to add these products to your cleanser because they are a formulation improvement or because they might be? 
    It makes a huge difference for those on the consumer side."

    As I noted, using it as a colorant with potential benefits, using powdered green tea AND green tea extract. Whether the consumer thinks that's a good idea is up to them. I will include instructions to leave the cleanser on the face for longer to increase the chances of a positive effect.

    Now keep in mind this thread is about colourants ;)


  • AuroraBorealisAuroraBorealis Member
    edited December 2014
    @otherhalf-  Clinical efficacy is not a concern of cosmetics. Please keep in mind that I'm talking about general cosmetics. We're mostly application chemists who try to find formulation solutions that are generally effective but more so, pleasing to the general public, our clients and their marketing team. 

    @Zink- Consider coloured loofah powders. They are fairly inexpensive and I think suitable for your purpose.
  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    @Zink,

    Sodium Copper Chlorophyllin is a deodorant. It is NOT an approved colorant for cosmetics or soap/cleansers, so it would be completely illegal in the US to use it to color your facial cleanser green. (It is OK in dental products. Go figure.)

    My understanding is that if you use it as a deodorant, or for any of it's other properties, and you are definitely not using it as a colorant, it is legal to use in cosmetics, even if it does happen to have a green color. To be on the completely safe side, I would put a reference to the deodorant properties somewhere on the label.
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    I agree with @bobzchemist .  If you are using any ingredient specifically as a colorant then you are limited to what is on the list of the FDA approved colorant list.  

    As far as I know green tea is not an approved colorant.

    Learn to formulate cosmetics
  • otherhalfotherhalf Member
    @aurora

    Wow, that makes me really sad :(

    Think you for being so frank. I am going to double my attention on what I buy :(
  • ZinkZink Member
    There's no Chlorophyllin in the green tea. I use green tea extract too, which is brown. 


  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    @Zink,

    SCC is a separate ingredient from green tea. You did ask for an alternative to green tea, didn't you? You can buy a little here (a little goes a long, long way) http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/261450445347?lpid=82 or you can get me a fedex number and I'll send you a some of the 10% solution in Glycerin that we use.

    Neither green tea nor SCC (or many other natural colors) are approved colorants.

    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • ZinkZink Member
    edited December 2014
    Sure, so you're saying Chlorophyllin is viable in a facial cleanser, if the product is labeled as having deodorant properties? And thanks a lot for the offer! But I can just get some from Ebay :)

    I'm not using (0.2%) green tea as a colorant, although the color is a nice side effect, so I don't see the issue using it - or am I missing something here?
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    There is no problem using green tea powder except in your first comment you said "I'm making a low pH facial cleanser formula and currently using powdered green tea as a colorant..."


    If you're using it for some other reason beyond being a colorant, that is fine.  You just can't use it as a colorant.
    Learn to formulate cosmetics
  • ZinkZink Member
    Got it. Only for the potential benefits, not at all for the nice deep green color... Interesting stuff.
    So basically the FDA doesn't want to see any ingredients that are purely used as colorants except for the ones they've approved?
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    Exactly.  Back in the day when the FDA was created there were lots of poisonous things used to color cosmetics and drugs.  And some people were being disfigured or dying.  So, the FDA is extremely strict about what is allowed as a colorant in food, drugs and cosmetics.  In fact, colorants are the most highly regulated ingredient you'll find in cosmetics.
    Learn to formulate cosmetics
  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    @Zink,

    Precisely right, with two exceptions.

    1) Ingredients that are known colorants, and that have no possible use or benefit other than coloring a product. You will have a tough time getting this kind of product past the FDA. A good example would be plastic glitter.

    2) Any ingredient in a color cosmetic (one who's main purpose is to impart color to the skin or hair) that contributes to the color is going to face a much closer scrutiny by the FDA than that same ingredient would face if it was formulated into a skin care product.
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    I would like to chime in as well. While we have taken advantage of the coloration from a Botanical Extract such as Green Tea, we have always made it a point to make the perceived benefit primary and the coloring a secondary unintended benefit. That said you will find that you will have difficulty matching the coloration from batch to batch due to variations in the botanicals over time. The advantage of the approved colors is consistency from batch to batch.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • otherhalfotherhalf Member
    What benefit? I still haven't found anything about it.

    Can someone post sources?
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    edited December 2014
    There is really no benefit to adding Green Tea Powder to a cleanser.  You won't get extraction of any of the catechins and polyphenols from the powder into the cleanser.  

    Zink is interested in a marketing schtick ... Green Tea ... Green colored cleanser ... get it?  This is not about benefits, it's all about the color.  Zink also stated the he/she was separately adding Green Tea Extract as the source of catechins/polyphenols.

    This really isn't a big deal.  If you're adding Green Tea Powder, as Microformulation said, the coloring from the powder is just a function of adding Green Tea Powder.  You are perfectly free to add approved ingredients to your formulation that do absolutely nothing and you don't have to justify their presence. 


    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    Marketing is certainly the key term here. The word "perceived" before benefit in my statement was not unintentional.


    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
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