Developing a toner

paoloferinopaoloferino Member
in Formulating
Good day! Currently, I'm developing an alcohol free toner.

For 100g

Water 83.90
Jojoba oil 3.00
Aloe Vera Extract 3.00
Lime Extract = 1.00
Glycerine = 5.00
Phenoxyethanol = 0.9
Surfactant=???

Do I still need surfactant/solubilizer since some of may ingredients are oil? Can you recommend any surfactant/solubilizer?

Thank you! 

Comments

  • paoloferinopaoloferino Member
    Correction, is surfactant the right ingredient to use to a toner or solubilizer?
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    edited July 2019
    A toner is a marketing term. First toners contained alcohol. Later (mid 90's) they started including surfactants and became additional step after cleansing milk (to remove residue left by the cleansing milk). Nowadays toner is nothing more but a liquid serum (water, some extract for claims and glycerin). It is a moisturising product. So you should decide what your product is supposed to do, cleaning or moisturising. Adding oil and surfactant will make it a cleansing product.

    What is aloe vera extract? Is it something like aloe vera x 200 or it's aloe vera juice?
  • paoloferinopaoloferino Member
    A toner is a marketing term. First toners contained alcohol. Later (mid 90's) they started including surfactants and became additional step after cleansing milk (to remove residue left by the cleansing milk). Nowadays toner is nothing more but a liquid serum (water, some extract for claims and glycerin). It is a moisturising product. So you should decide what your product is supposed to do, cleaning or moisturising. Adding oil and surfactant will make it a cleansing product.

    What is aloe vera extract? Is it something like aloe vera x 200 or it's aloe vera juice?

    Thank you for this information, Sir @n@ngarayeva001. So meaning, if I were to develop a toner it should have a alcohol always since its main function is to cleanse. I think this is the aloe vera extract concentrate x10. 


  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    No, what I was trying to say is that toners were changing throughout time. I am personally not a fan of alcohol in skincare, although many chemists would disagree with this. If it’s a cleansing product, remove oils and add PEG-6 Caprylic/Capric glycerides. Alternatively you can add  polysorbate 80 or even decyl glucoside but that wouldn’t be my first choice.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @paoloferino

    Water 83.90
    Jojoba oil 3.00
    Aloe Vera Extract 3.00
    Lime Extract = 1.00
    Glycerine = 5.00
    Phenoxyethanol = 0.9
    Surfactant/Solubilizer

    This is going to be a sticky mess with Glycerine loaded in at 5% in a water-based formula.  You might want to cut that down to 1% or less.  Better yet, use Glycerine at 0.5% and Sodium Lactate at 4% to 5% or Saccharide Isomerate at 2% or so.

    That's also a high load of Jojoba Oil that you'll need to solubilize ... you might want to cut that down to 1% and solubilize it with Poly Suga Mulse D9 loaded in at 3% to 5%.  Since Jojoba Oil is actually a wax, it will almost definitely form waxy flakes over time suspended in your base, so Jojoba Oil is not a very good choice for this product format.  
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • paoloferinopaoloferino Member
    MarkBroussard said:
    @paoloferino

    Water 83.90
    Jojoba oil 3.00
    Aloe Vera Extract 3.00
    Lime Extract = 1.00
    Glycerine = 5.00
    Phenoxyethanol = 0.9
    Surfactant/Solubilizer

    This is going to be a sticky mess with Glycerine loaded in at 5% in a water-based formula.  You might want to cut that down to 1% or less.  Better yet, use Glycerine at 0.5% and Sodium Lactate at 4% to 5% or Saccharide Isomerate at 2% or so.

    That's also a high load of Jojoba Oil that you'll need to solubilize ... you might want to cut that down to 1% and solubilize it with Poly Suga Mulse D9 loaded in at 3% to 5%.  Since Jojoba Oil is actually a wax, it will almost definitely form waxy flakes over time suspended in your base, so Jojoba Oil is not a very good choice for this product format.  

    Thank you for this information @MarkBroussard. This will be a good help. I will run this suggestion and I will update. Thank you. Can you suggest any solubilizer though I have an available Polysobrate-20. 
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    Poly Suga Mulse D9 as solubilizer.  But, my first recommendation would be to not use Jojoba Oil.  Instead, if you really, really want to add an oil, perhaps Rose Hip Oil at 1%.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • paoloferinopaoloferino Member
    MarkBroussard said:
    Poly Suga Mulse D9 as solubilizer.  But, my first recommendation would be to not use Jojoba Oil.  Instead, if you really, really want to add an oil, perhaps Rose Hip Oil at 1%.

    Thank you!
  • paoloferinopaoloferino Member
    Just to give you an update on toner. After the mixing, I've noticed some things. 

    1. Solution is slightly turbid.
    2. My pH is 9,2.

    Below are the ingredients that I've used.

    Water - 83.1g
    EDTA - 0.4g
    Glycerine - 0.5g
    Eumulgin L (PPG-1-PEG-9 Lauryl Glycol Ether) - 4g
    Cucumber Extract - 2.0g
    Aloe Vera Extract - 2.0g
    Tomato Extract - 2.0g
    Multioil Vit ACE - 2.0g
    Peppermint Oil - 2.0g
    Lavender oil - 2.0g

    My question is, is the pH okoay? If not, what can I use to lower down the pH? Another is, how can I make it a clear solution?

    Thank you.
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    edited July 2019
    pH is too high. I know some professional chemists on this forum are not persuaded that low pH products are better but 9? At least bring it down to neutral. Citric acid 50% solution. I am curious what caused that pH.

    4% of essential oils! These are irritants. Especially peppermint at such a concentration. Bring it down to 0.3% , 0.5% max.

    4% of solubiliser is not sufficient for 4% of oil. It's usually 4:1 depending on the oil.

    Is it Disodium EDTA? You can reduce to 0.2%
    I can't see a preservative. Am I missing anything?
  • paoloferinopaoloferino Member
    ngarayeva001 said:
    pH is too high. I know some professional chemists on this forum are not persuaded that low pH products are better but 9? At least bring it down to neutral. Citric acid 50% solution. I am curious what caused that pH.

    4% of essential oils! These are irritants. Especially peppermint at such a concentration. Bring it down to 0.3% , 0.5% max.

    4% of solubiliser is not sufficient for 4% of oil. It's usually 4:1 depending on the oil.

    Is it Disodium EDTA? You can reduce to 0.2%
    I can't see a preservative. Am I missing anything?

    Thank you for your response. Can we use lactic acid instead of citric acid?

    For the essential oils, this is noted I will reduce it to your recommended quantity.

    I'm using Tetrasodium EDTA and the preservative I've used is Sodium Benzoate as a preservative.
  • lmoscalmosca Member
    Na4EDTA is the culprit for the high pH. A 1% solution of it in water has a pH of 11+. Also, sodium benzoate will be completely ineffective at that pH, as it is effective (against molds and yeasts) at acidic pH values. You will need a bacteriostatic agent as well. 
    Multioil ACE is Soybean oil based, what are the vehicles (solvents) for your other extracts (cucumber, aloe, tomato)? If they are all oil based, then you already have an 8% lipophilic matter in your formula, plus a 4% for the essential oils. 
    I second @ngarayeva001, far too much essential oils, at that concentration peppermint oil will be far too irritating (especially for a facial product).

  • paoloferinopaoloferino Member
    lmosca said:
    Na4EDTA is the culprit for the high pH. A 1% solution of it in water has a pH of 11+. Also, sodium benzoate will be completely ineffective at that pH, as it is effective (against molds and yeasts) at acidic pH values. You will need a bacteriostatic agent as well. 
    Multioil ACE is Soybean oil based, what are the vehicles (solvents) for your other extracts (cucumber, aloe, tomato)? If they are all oil based, then you already have an 8% lipophilic matter in your formula, plus a 4% for the essential oils. 
    I second @ngarayeva001, far too much essential oils, at that concentration peppermint oil will be far too irritating (especially for a facial product).

    So that answers my question. Thank you Imosca. With this I will again reformulate my product. The cucumber and tomato extract as for assessment I think it is water based extracts only. I've used the eumulgin to be the "carrier" of oils. 
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    paoloferino said:
    ...Can we use lactic acid instead of citric acid?
    ...
    Yes, you can.
  • SheerAttractioncomSheerAttractioncom Member
    pH is too high. I know some professional chemists on this forum are not persuaded that low pH products are better but 9? At least bring it down to neutral. Citric acid 50% solution. I am curious what caused that pH.

    4% of essential oils! These are irritants. Especially peppermint at such a concentration. Bring it down to 0.3% , 0.5% max.

    4% of solubiliser is not sufficient for 4% of oil. It's usually 4:1 depending on the oil.

    Is it Disodium EDTA? You can reduce to 0.2%
    I can't see a preservative. Am I missing anything?
    I have sensitive skin and even a very small amount of essential oil irritates. I feel that adding them to hair and skin products diminishes a portion of your target market and possibly trigger some negative reviews. 
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