Brainstorm “The best natural emulsifiers”

DtdangDtdang Member
in Formulating
Dear friends, 
Please give me the lists of emulsifiers that fit Thebest natural emulsifiers in terms of high tolerance of % oils phase & water phase;!and also giving smooth and soft cream.
thanks a lot in advance 

Comments

  • GuntherGunther Member
    Probably just about lecithin is truly natural
    Everything else is man made, even if they start with ingredients found in nature.
  • DtdangDtdang Member
    Thanks 
  • chemicalmattchemicalmatt Member, Professional Chemist
    There are others besides lecithin: cholesterol, Imulsify (orange peel polymer), both of which accommodate a high oil load. 
  • em88em88 Member
    chemicalmatt said:
    There are others besides lecithin: cholesterol, Imulsify (orange peel polymer), both of which accommodate a high oil load. 
    I was introduced in the beginning of this year to this emulsifier and if I'm remembering right it was used for cold process. I didn't ask for the price because I was almost sure the price was very high. But once I saw it I immediately thought for making natural creams.
    I'm curious if anyone used it?
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    I have used it. I get to try a lot of these materials early on. It was ok. Perhaps having it linked to orange peel is attractive to marketing. The price was prohibitive.

    This is a non-starter of a conversation for me.

    1. Define what "natural" really means. It has no definition. Continuing with a vague marketing definition provided zero assistance during the R&D process and in fact will be a hindrance. 
    2. Let's say you want to be "natural." Defining this as plant-based materials minimally processed is a great start. (You do need to add naturally occurring minerals in cases of pigments and sunscreens). What is the allowable processing? Luckily for us, COSMOS defines these processes in an appendix. Now, that opens a huge array of acceptable emulsifiers.
    3. Another option is to follow a raw material standard. Searching UL Prospector for ECOCERT emulsifiers alone gave me over 50 acceptable materials, all with good and substantiated "natural" pedigrees.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • chemicalmattchemicalmatt Member, Professional Chemist
    ….or one could use any coco or palm oil based surfactant - say, glyceryl stearate - and just call it "natural" on the label without any credibility whatsoever, just like every brand in the USA is doing, right?
    BTW, I found Imulsify to be pretty cost effective ~ $8/lb. and carried an oil load ~ 25% with only one stabilizer used with 1.5% Imulsify. Pretty nifty stuff, I thought, but never made a sale with it. Go figure.
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    Same here. It was one of those materials that was exciting to work with. I liked the results. However, for one reason or another, it never went anywhere.

    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    I did a blind test of 10 natural emulsifiers and like Montanov L (that can be used for natural/ "green" concepts with Ecocert validation) the best. 
    It has a nice slip upon application and velvety after-feel.  Natragem EW is also nice. From easily accessible https://www.makingcosmetics.com/CreamMaker-FLUID_p_965.html 
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    I have to agree. That entire Seppic Montanov Line is outstanding to work with. 
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • vjayvjay Member
    Even BASF also had many ecocert and natural emulsifier, Olivem 1000 is the best natural emulsifier from chem house
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    Olivem 1000 is pretty outdated and process dependent. We stopped using it years ago. There are many better emulsifiers that require less scale-up engineering. Kalchem distributes Olivoil Glutamate Emulsifier which is really one generation evolved from Olivem. Better aesthetics and foolproof in the processing.

     
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • DtdangDtdang Member
    Thanks ALL! Have Wonderful Holidays
  • DtdangDtdang Member
    @ngarayeva001, it takes me quite long to identify gelmaker emu and Sepiplus 400 are high tolerance oil phase in term of %.
    thanks again 
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    Yes, they both can handle quite high oil phase. But I don’t think they are considered natural under any of the standards. 
  • DtdangDtdang Member
    @ngarayeva001, 100% natural is so difficult to achieve the highest performance, specially the emulsifiers. These two can save time and $ and improve the gentle touch and feel
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    Ditto on the Montanov line from Seppic ... excellent emulsifiers with natural credentials.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    @Dtdang, I am in a very different camp. If many are sceptical of "not natural" whatever they mean by that, I am sceptical of anything with label "natural" on it. I love esters and genuinely think nothing can beat petrolatum. There are only a couple of "natural" materials that I like: above mentioned Montanov L, Montanov 202 and Siligel (amazing gel maker and stabiliser).

    So, if you are not formulating for clients who demand "natural", organic, palm oil free, gmo-free, vegan etc. just enjoy conventional materials. They are much better.
  • DtdangDtdang Member
    @ngarayeva001, just for personal use and friends.
    thank a lot
  • EVchemEVchem Member
    @chemicalmatt ; @Microformulation ; Where is Imulsify from? Sounds interesting  but when I search prospector I'm not seeing it. 
  • bigziombigziom Member
    About those Montanov emulifiers: i have access to Montanov 202 TM and Montanov 68 TM. Which one you would prefer if i would like to make face cream and some kind of aftershave lotion? Does any of them require co-emulsifier or  water phase stabiliser like xanthan gum?
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    Yes you do want to add something like cetyl alcohol for sure. And a stabiliser is a good idea as well. I suggest siligel because xantham alone gives nasty ranch sauce like texture :)
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