W/O emulsion stabilization

shivashiva Member
in Skin
hi every body
I have formulated a w/o hand cream with sorbitan monooleate as emulsifier. I prepared it in 70 to 75 degrees centigrade with a homogenizer in 10000 rpm. the emulsion looks consistent at first but after about 1 month in room temperature the emulsion breaks down. how can i work with this emulsifier to obtain an emulsion with high shelf life?
tnx a lot
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Comments

  • BelassiBelassi Member
    We are not telepathic, how do you expect us to be able to make suggestions if you provide no information?
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    @Belassi another advantage to be here, have to learn telepathy now. About time!!!๐Ÿ˜€๐Ÿ˜€๐Ÿ˜€
  • shivashiva Member
    edited August 2018
    excuse me for my ignorance but what do you mean by information? which kind of information do you need
  • SibechSibech Member, Professional Chemist
    You have not provided any information on the formulation.

    how much emulsifier?, what is the oil phase?, any gelling agents? the list goes on. Basically, show your formula as it is, otherwise no-one will have a chance to help.
    Dabbling Formulator โ€” Qualified Cosmetic Safety Assessor โ€” experienced in claim substantiation & EU regulatory affairs.
  • shivashiva Member
    edited August 2018
    Yes, you are right! thanks for your kind recommendation.
    the formulation of the cold cream consists of:

    petroleum jelly
    wax
    preservative
    sorbitan oleate

    at the beginning the emulsion is OK and it passes centrifuge test (10 min in 3500 rpm).the cream viscosity is quite high but desired. but its shelf life is very low especially in higher temperatures. Changing ingredient percentage didn't work.
    it would be my pleasure to hear your suggestions
  • em88em88 Member
    What is the water %? 
    What about adding lanolin?
  • amitvedakaramitvedakar Member
    @shiva   post full formula with %
  • shivashiva Member
    edited August 2018
    the water is about 75 percent. about other ingredients: i tried different percentages but i couldn't get any stable formula so i didn't achieve any fixed formula!! i used different ratios of petroleum jelly:wax but it didn't work and i also changed the amount of sorbitan oleate from 0.5 up to 3 percent and the same result!!! I guess i may need a stabilizer in my formula but i dont know what it can be
    there is no lanolin in it. all the ingredients are those written in former messages.
  • em88em88 Member
    If water is 75% than, you are making an o/w emulsion and sorbitan oleate will not stabilize the emulsion since it is a w/o emulsifier with low HLB value. 
    You should add in your emulsifying system polysorbate as well. caluclate the required HLB for the oil fase and than add 2-5% emulsifying system (polysorbate and sorbitan oleate) in your emulsion. 
  • Food_ProcesserFood_Processer Member
    W/O emulsion is that one has 60% or more of oils .. 
  • SibechSibech Member, Professional Chemist
    You can make a water in oil formulation as that by choosing a whatโ€™s called a high internal phase emulsifier - Alchemy (previously alpha chem) have one called HIPEgel Aqua - it bears mention that it is not an emulsion in classical understanding but more of a polygonal network of droplets.

    https://alchemy-ingredients.com/products/high-internal-phase-emulsions/hipegel-aqua/hipegel-aqua-1
    Dabbling Formulator โ€” Qualified Cosmetic Safety Assessor โ€” experienced in claim substantiation & EU regulatory affairs.
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    Honestly, you can't say an emulsion is O/W or W/O based on a percentage of net water. You must see the entire Formula as there are ways to make high internal water phases. It is not so simple.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • em88em88 Member
    Microformulation I'm sure this is not that case. Anyway, do you mind sharing a few articles regarding emulsification of high amounts of water (over 50%) in w/o emulsion?
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    While holding my coffee in one hand and typing with the other, it took me all of 3 minutes to find a sample W/O starting Formula where the water is at 73.5% yet it is still a Water in Oil Emulsion. If you search the Forum, I can recall at least one thread regarding the fallacy of using the water to qualify the type of emulsion. Making a W/O emulsion is harder but there are NUMEROUS emulsifiers for this purpose AND you can even use the HLB to create a W/O emulsion. As for documents, there are far too many to cite.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • Bill_TogeBill_Toge Member, Professional Chemist
    edited August 2018
    the notion that the nature of an emulsion is determined by the percentage of water (weight, volume or molar percent?) is a surprisingly long-lived urban myth that flies in the face of actual evidence, and the laws of thermodynamics, and is cited as fact without anyone actually thinking about how or why it works

    a few months ago I made a thread debunking it in detail
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
  • shivashiva Member
    edited August 2018
    thanks a lot
    all the discussions here raise another debate: if I reduce the amount of water, is the emulsion more stable? but actually it wasn't!!!

    Making a stable w/o emulsion seems a little bit challenging. I will apply all of your recommendations and it will be my pleasure if you introduce other efficient emulsifiers for making HIPEs. (low-cost ones are more desirable)
    thank you all.
  • em88em88 Member
    @microformulation, that is because you knew to to look for. Still thanks :)
    Have you ever used ABILยฎ WE 09?

  • shivashiva Member
    no i have not. i will try it if i find it in my country's market. Most of the times i have trouble finding the professional chemicals
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    I used the product once for a very similar product. What I recall most is that it was a very process dependent Formulation.

    @Bill_Toge pointed out, we had a thread on this topic months ago.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • RDKOXYNERGYRDKOXYNERGY Member
    Abil are excellent for Water in Oil, I use only these. You can even make water Drop creams with up to 90% water.

    But add 3% isohexadecane... it gives very good stability to water in Oil emulsions.
  • DoreenDoreen Member
    edited November 2018
    @em88
    I have made W/O creams with 80% water! It's just very important to add the water phase to the oil phase and not vice versa.

    https://betaknowledge.ulprospector.com/6657/pcc-silky-smooth-creams-creating-high-internal-phase-emulsions/

    Edit: I see it's already been mentioned. I overlooked the fact that only the last post is very recent. :/ sorry!
  • DoreenDoreen Member
    @shiva
    Do you know Easynov? It can be used cold process!

    https://www.ulprospector.com/en/na/PersonalCare/Detail/1432/103357/EASYNOV
  • em88em88 Member
    edited November 2018
    Doreen said:
    @em88
    I have made W/O creams with 80% water! It's just very important to add the water phase to the oil phase and not vice versa.

    https://betaknowledge.ulprospector.com/6657/pcc-silky-smooth-creams-creating-high-internal-phase-emulsions/

    Edit: I see it's already been mentioned. I overlooked the fact that only the last post is very recent. :/ sorry!
    Very interesting video.
    Seppic products are great, but are expensive. 
    Did you use easynov for your cream?

  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    Off topic but does anyone know any suppliers who sell easinov for crafters (small amount)? I have a couple of seppic producs from lotioncrafter, but they do not have easinov.
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