fragrance stability test

nasrinsnasrins Member
edited December 2014 in Formulating
I performed freeze thaw cycle(3times) test on my hair mask to see if it seperates or not. the stability(pH,color,viscosity and seperation issue) of my hair mask was ok but I found that the fragrance was changed. it got bad smelling. Can I conclude via this method test that this fragrance doesnt have compatibility and durability or it has another specific test?? #-o

Comments

  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    Yes I think it's the case of fragrance gone bad as you mention that the other parameters are OK (as sometimes micro contamination can affect all or any of these parameters). But I would still check for micro contamination just in case. Or maybe same formula with another fragrance just to confirm.
    As a normal chemist I would do the same procedure what you have done and I would definitely like to know if there is some specific test as well for this aspect.
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    I agree.  If your fragrance doesn't stand up to a freeze-thaw cycle, your product isn't stable.  Time to get a new fragrance.
  • @perry"your product isn't stable" u mean fragrance stability ya?
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @nasrins:

    Why don't you e-mail Irina Tudor ... this is her area of expertise.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    The phrase "your product isn't stable" is rather broad.  It just means some characteristic of your product has significantly deviated from it's initial condition.

    In your case, it's a fragrance stability problem.  In other cases it's an emulsion stability problem or maybe a microbiological stability problem.  

    In all cases of significant change, there is a stability problem.


  • IrinaTudorIrinaTudor Member, PCF student
    edited December 2014
    @nasrins Please expand on your stability protocol. Did you do a stability test of the unscented product?
    Only then you will know if the culprit is fragrance or something else.

    Also did you gather information from your supplier if your fragrance is compatible with your end product (a hair mask) and/or your raw materials?

    If you add 'ready made blends' that are sold to you without any specs, then you will need to do the trial-error testing yourself (adding 1% of the fragrance blend to each material 1 on 1 and see what happens, then add 1% of the fragrance blend to a mixture of 2 materials, etc. etc.).

    Or you can design your own fragrance by using only single molecule fragrance materials that have been proven to be stable when used together with your specific raw materials and the pH of the end product.
    Again for this kind of information you depend on your fragrance supplier.

    hth

    p.s. it also helps if you post your formula here so that we can see if the formula itself looks good to begin with.
    Irina Tudor Consultancy olfactory & fragrance training, formulation, research, EU safety assessment www.irinatudor.nl www.somethingsmelly.com get your daily smelly (science) fix on twitter SomethingSmelly
  • nasrinsnasrins Member
    edited December 2014

    @Irinatudor

    "Did you do a stability test of the unscented product?" really no I didnt.

    "Also did you gather information from your supplier if your fragrance is compatible with your end product (a hair mask) and/or your raw materials?"  the fragrance is just for shampoo products but mine is leave on hair conditioner. Ifollow up.

    "(adding 1% of the fragrance blend to each material 1 on 1 and see what happens, then add 1% of the fragrance blend to a mixture of 2 materials, etc. etc.)." I really didnt undrestant what u said, material =my hair mask? what do u mean mixture of 2 materials?

     

  • leave in hair conditioner(spray on):

    water90/ guar 0.05/  behentrimonium chloride 1.5/  poly7  0.5/   jojoba oil  1/   sweet almond oil 0.5/  cetearyl alcohol 2/   cetyl alcohol 0.5/    cyclomethicone/  dimethicone/   dpanthenol 0.5/  propylenglycol  2/  glycerin 0.5/  methyl-propyl parabens/ fragrance

     

     

  • IrinaTudorIrinaTudor Member, PCF student
    edited December 2014
    You should (run a stability test before assuming that your fragrance is the culprit).

    Some comments on your formula:
    is guar, guar gum?
    poly7, polyquaternium 7?

    Combining quats & guar gum will only work if you use Cationic guar gum.

    Then there might be a solubility issue with your oils and emulsifying agents. Adding in the silicones I think your % of emulsifiers is too low.

    With material, I mean each raw cosmetic material other than water. 

    Make a batch with just 90% water + 9% behentrimonium chloride + 1% fragrance and see if there are issues.
    Do the same with water + behentrimonium chloride + 1 oil + fragrance
    etc etc.

    Now it seems like you're just adding raw materials randomly.

    Start easy from scratch and understand (study on and read about) each and every raw material you add before actually making batches and worrying about stability protocols.
    This blog has very easy well balanced formula's for any beginner. And it explains the chemistry behind it in plain terms.

    Here it illustrates how to make a hair mask with lots of oils, see the % of emulsifiers? 

    Good luck!
    Irina Tudor Consultancy olfactory & fragrance training, formulation, research, EU safety assessment www.irinatudor.nl www.somethingsmelly.com get your daily smelly (science) fix on twitter SomethingSmelly
  • @Irinatudor

    sorry for my delay..yes they are guar gum and polyquaternium 10 and again yes its cationic guar gum. irina why u are searching about the stability of my mask? Im sure that my mask is a stable emulsion because it passes 3 different stability tests.

    u know what is my problem? I just want to know when my mask after freeze-thraw cycle get bad smelling so can I be sure that this franrance isnt suitable for my mask? or maybe freeze-thraw cycle is not for fragrance stability? 

     in other term is there any reliable test method to determine the stability of the fragrance? these are my questions...these are  different stability test but most are them are about emulsion stability not fragrance stability.

    thanks...

  • IrinaTudorIrinaTudor Member, PCF student
    edited December 2014
    I'm sorry @nasrins, I was confused by your answer above:
    I quote
    ' "Did you do a stability test of the unscented product?" really no I didnt. '

    'Fragrance' is not 1 raw material, unless you use 1 raw fragrance material like a single molecule substance that is used to fragrance a product.  For example vanillin is a single fragrance raw material.

    If your 'fragrance' is a blend then each of the single molecules could interfere on many levels with each and every of your other raw cosmetic materials.

    That is why it is hard to do a general stability test of fragrance as it is dependent on what materials is made of and how they interact with the rest of the formula and your finished product. The pH range is for example a property that will influence how your fragrance preforms. Fragrance can also influence viscosity. 
    Due to polarity issues, if your finished product is mostly polar (as you said that it contains 90% water) and knowing that most fragrances are non-polar, that will give you solubility thus separation issues. 
    So you will need to add solubilizers like polysorbates.

    But there are many many ways to deal with such problems and most come down to a trial and error test like I have described above. And no easy ways, I'm afraid.
    Irina Tudor Consultancy olfactory & fragrance training, formulation, research, EU safety assessment www.irinatudor.nl www.somethingsmelly.com get your daily smelly (science) fix on twitter SomethingSmelly
  • Irina when you have a finished product how u test ur product fargrance stability? would u explain one of them for me plz?

    I mean fargrance stability= just durability of the smelling or changing the smell( I dont talk about pH,color, viscosity and any other thing)

  • IrinaTudorIrinaTudor Member, PCF student
    @nasrins I don't have to as I ensure that both my fragrance and my cosmetic product are well designed for their purpose in the first place. So then as a whole they always pass any stability test.

    When testing new cosmetic or fragrance raw materials I have a database of well designed and proven stable formulations. I then add the new material and do a split test, thus measuring differences. Those measurements always include changes in hedonics, odor intensity, odor diffusion, pH, viscosity, appearance, texture, color and any other physical properties that are important to the end use.

    I have designed a special chart based on a scientific approach and experience.

    I am working on a book on the subject so I hope to make this available to everyone in the near future.

    But for now, this is all I can disclose ;)
    Irina Tudor Consultancy olfactory & fragrance training, formulation, research, EU safety assessment www.irinatudor.nl www.somethingsmelly.com get your daily smelly (science) fix on twitter SomethingSmelly
  • thanks alot irina.. it seems I myself should find a solution ...and can I have ur email?
  • IrinaTudorIrinaTudor Member, PCF student
    @nasrins, you can contact me via any of the 2 websites mentioned below in my signature. Please note that my advice here is free, but for specific matters you can email me for a personalized quote ;)
    Irina Tudor Consultancy olfactory & fragrance training, formulation, research, EU safety assessment www.irinatudor.nl www.somethingsmelly.com get your daily smelly (science) fix on twitter SomethingSmelly
  • thank alot............
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