Lexgard Natural - for anhydrous emulsifying scrub - Crosspost

MoonieMoonie Member
edited December 2014 in Formulating
I have posted this question on the Making

Hello! I am new here and am looking for information on Lexgard Natural (made by Inolex). Here is the link to their product bulletin: http://www.pharmacos.in/.../product_pdf/lexgard_natural.pdf 

I am specifically interested in if this preservative will be effective in an emulsifying sugar scrub (made with emulsifier but no water). My questions is based on this paragraph at the Making Skin Care blog:

"If water may be introduced to the product or the product used in a humid bathroom then a preservative is advisable. An expert microbiologist advises that if trying to preserve an anhydrous product (including all oil+sugar/salt scrub) the oil soluble preservative will get locked in the oils so will not reach any water, if water was introduced into the product. So if you added an oil soluble preservative then that preservative will stay in the oils and not move over to where the water is located to protect that water against bacteria and mould so would be useless. So contrary to what you may have read, we should really use a water soluble preservative in an anhydrous product which means we’d need to add an emulsifier to get that preservative mixed in properly with the oils."

Lexgard Natural is Water AND oil soluble. What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks!


as of right now, it's the last post dated today.

Comments

  • First, that is a closed group so I can't see the comment.
    Secondly, I have no experience with this product although I do use Inolex preservatives (Spectrastat and Spectraguard). I have found them to be excellent preservatives when used at the recommended dosage.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    I have used it with success. However, can you buy wholesale? I have yet to see it sold retail and Inolex does have a minimum order quantity of 5KG the last times I got pricing.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • It is being sold at Ingredients To Die For under the product name of VegeCide.

    Good to hear there has been success with it. Would someone address the portion of my post referring to water soluble preservatives suggested for anhydrous formulas. I am really curious about that. Since Lexgard Natural is water AND oil soluble i'm hoping that the it will fit my needs for a sugar scrub where water will be introduced into the container when being used.

    Thanks for your time.
  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    Sorry, but the ONLY way to know for sure is for you to have a challenge test done. 

    It would be irresponsible of us to tell you otherwise, since it might work, and it might not work, depending on what ingredients are used, and what microbiological load they carry to start with. No one can accurately predict preservative performance, even if you reveal your entire formulation.

    Many beginning formulators/entrepreneurs have a huge problem with this reality, but there is no getting around it.
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    Good point Bob.

    There are some questions in which you can say "No, that won't work"

    There are very few questions in which you can say "This will work"

    Formulating is complicated and every formulation preservative requirements are unique due to the % of ingredients you use, your method of manufacture, the quality of the raw materials you start with, and a host of other things.  You need to test your specific formula.

    As far as the product you are describing, if the consumer adds water to the formula just before using then you don't really have to worry about further preservation.  When they use it up right away there wouldn't be time for any microbes to grow to a significant amount.  However, if you have them add water and they keep the product around for a few weeks, then you could have a problem.
  • @Microformulation: Yes I know what you mean. My Inolex rep was very helpful though in terms of samples. It was enough to get through design and proof and test marketing, although I've only got three (gel) products using it at the moment.

    @Moonie: You might contact your local universities to see if any of them have a microbiology speciality. A dental school will have such. So then you prepare a batch and place samples in inoculation dishes and take it to them and have them add various interesting things like A. Niger for example. And see what happens.
    First of all, I would make a batch and just leave it in 2 oz pots with the lids off, in the open air. See what happens.

    It is a good idea to start a shelf where you keep samples from your lots. You check them as time goes by and see what happens. My oldest samples are now over 4 years old and still look OK but I wouldn't want to use them!
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Thank you all for replying.

    I am still trying to rationalize the statement from my first post that a water soluble preservative should be used in an anhydrous scrub because an oil soluble preservative will not migrate to water that is introduced into the anhydrous product.

    Please note that the water I am talking about would be incidential, not incorporated into the product, by scooping out product with your hands in the bath or shower. And when i say emulsifying scrub, this means that it emulsifies when used on wet skin.

    I do understand that formulas should be tested to ensure the chosen preservative is effective for each formula.

    Any more thoughts?

  • @markfuller - i just looked at your website link. I'm in Charleston!
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    @moonie Glad to see another from Charleston. As you progress you may want to consider attending a meeting of the Carolinas SCC Chapter. Generally the Meeting are near Charlotte, but periodically they have meetings here in Charleston.

    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • I'm going to 'bump' this up again.

    I am not so much asking if this preservative will be effective for my scrub formula. I want discussion on the TYPE of preservative to be used with an anhydrous scrub that will have water introduced when being used.

    Please sea see my previous posts for the reasons this question is being asked.

    In a nut shell: Should a Water Based or Oil Based preservative be used in an anhydrous product. Will an oil based preservative migrate into the water introduced into the product container of an anhydrous product or would a water based preservative be best in THEORY.

    Thanks for sticking with me!

    I agree and understand that all products should be tested for stability and efficacy.


  • I have found that the Inolex materials require a higher use level in my types of formulations.

    Have you considered a phenoxyethanol blend like Botanistat PF-64?
  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    edited December 2014
    @Moonie, as a purely theoretical discussion - I would put both oil and water-soluble preservatives into your formulation, especially if you don't have any emulsifiers in the product, but also if you do.

    I think it would be extremely unlikely for an oil-soluble preservative to get anywhere near water incidentally introduced into a product - migration wouldn't happen at all without a lot of agitation. Water-soluble preservatives might have to be ground into your oils, but I think it would be worth it.

    Remember, preservation isn't just a matter of keeping microbes under control - it's also a matter of legal CYA, and protecting yourself/your employer from lawsuits.
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
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