Please advise on my dry mask formulation

Hi all,

I am looking to make a dry mask formulation that is very high end. I would like this mask to moisturize, rejuvenate and tighten (to some degree), and reduce a little redness (mugwort). Here is what I have come up with. Before I order ingredients, i wanted to run this by you guys. My specific questions are:

1) I am looking for cost effective vitamin C powder. Since this will be in a water-less formula, I figure I do not have to worry about this staying stable and going rancid. Can I use any vitamin C powder I choose?

2) I wanted to include a little HLA powder too. Can I also choose any?

3) With the active ingredients (peptides, HLA, vitamin C) do you think the % are high enough to show some efficacy? I am weighing COG into the equation as this is very important to me.

I am on the fence about using the smallest bit of preservative just in case. I want this to have a 2 year shelf life.

100 grams total

10% grams Illite Clay
15% grams Benonite clay
15% french green clay
10% Oat powder

5% kelp powder
10% honey powder
5% ginseng powder
5% mugwort powder
10% green tea powder
6% Macha powder
3% HLA powder
3% B5 powder
2% Peptide powder
1% aloe powder

Comments

  • EVchemEVchem Member
    I would say the preservative would be worthwhile because many of these ingredients may come with a heavy microbial burden unless you are getting irradiated powders.

  • Good feedback, thank you. What do you think of the active ingredients?
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    1. Sure - although you should use a vitamin C powder that adheres to some reasonable standards (e.g. https://www.gcchemicals.com/docs/AscorbicAcid%20-%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf)

    2.  Same answer as above. Find an hyaluronic acid source that has good specifications.

    3.  It's unlikely any of the active ingredients will show a consumer perceptible, lasting effect so the amount you use doesn't matter much. No one has ever tested these ingredients combined and delivered from a powdered facial mask.  So, you would expect three possible outcomes.

    a.  Skin is improved
    b.  Skin is made worse
    c.  Skin is unchanged

    The most likely of those three occurrences is C, skin is unchanged. 

    Product performance is not what sells masks. The experience of using them and the marketing of them is what sells masks.

    Consumers will believe whatever they want about their experience using the mask and it will have little relation as to whether it actually provided a benefit or not.

    My advice would be to make a formula with as little of each ingredient as you can and compare it to a formula using the amounts you listed above. On a blinded basis, I doubt you will be able to tell a difference.  I doubt even more that a consumer would.
  • EVchemEVchem Member
    There are people with a much stronger background on here that could give you more qualified advice. 
      but here are my  initial thoughts:
    - I don't know what peptide is in peptide powder but generally I'm skeptical of peptides doing much in cosmetics 
    - you can choose a variety of different molecular weight hyaluronic acids. The higher the molecular weight, the more it will just sit on top of the skin and the more it will form a thick gel when mixed with water.
    - if you want to tackle redness i would recommend niacinamide over mugwort powder but that's only because i'm more familiar with niacinamide for that application. 

     all that said, I'm not sure how any of these will perform when combined with the clays. Clays like bentonite swell and may reduce the 'efficacy' of some of your actives
  • Perry said:
    1. Sure - although you should use a vitamin C powder that adheres to some reasonable standards (e.g. https://www.gcchemicals.com/docs/AscorbicAcid%20-%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf)

    2.  Same answer as above. Find an hyaluronic acid source that has good specifications.

    3.  It's unlikely any of the active ingredients will show a consumer perceptible, lasting effect so the amount you use doesn't matter much. No one has ever tested these ingredients combined and delivered from a powdered facial mask.  So, you would expect three possible outcomes.

    a.  Skin is improved
    b.  Skin is made worse
    c.  Skin is unchanged

    The most likely of those three occurrences is C, skin is unchanged. 

    Product performance is not what sells masks. The experience of using them and the marketing of them is what sells masks.

    Consumers will believe whatever they want about their experience using the mask and it will have little relation as to whether it actually provided a benefit or not.

    My advice would be to make a formula with as little of each ingredient as you can and compare it to a formula using the amounts you listed above. On a blinded basis, I doubt you will be able to tell a difference.  I doubt even more that a consumer would.
    Perry said:
    1. Sure - although you should use a vitamin C powder that adheres to some reasonable standards (e.g. https://www.gcchemicals.com/docs/AscorbicAcid%20-%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf)

    2.  Same answer as above. Find an hyaluronic acid source that has good specifications.

    3.  It's unlikely any of the active ingredients will show a consumer perceptible, lasting effect so the amount you use doesn't matter much. No one has ever tested these ingredients combined and delivered from a powdered facial mask.  So, you would expect three possible outcomes.

    a.  Skin is improved
    b.  Skin is made worse
    c.  Skin is unchanged

    The most likely of those three occurrences is C, skin is unchanged. 

    Product performance is not what sells masks. The experience of using them and the marketing of them is what sells masks.

    Consumers will believe whatever they want about their experience using the mask and it will have little relation as to whether it actually provided a benefit or not.

    My advice would be to make a formula with as little of each ingredient as you can and compare it to a formula using the amounts you listed above. On a blinded basis, I doubt you will be able to tell a difference.  I doubt even more that a consumer would.
    Thank you so much Perry!

    Your answer is sort of what I expected. I was kind of hoping that the actives might show at least a slight improvement though. I can say, from personal experience, as soon as I started using vitamin C, retinol, and HLA combined with an LED light, I saw drastic improvement in about 4 months. I even got comments from friends and family about my skin looking nicer than ever before. I had redness and uneven skin tone that was greatly improved. So I do believe these ingredients work, but with all the variables present, I am not expecting a miracle by any means! My own experience is what made me excited to start looking into skincare formulating in the first place. Hopefully the mud and dirt doesn't get in the way of everything! 
  • EVchem said:
    There are people with a much stronger background on here that could give you more qualified advice. 
      but here are my  initial thoughts:
    - I don't know what peptide is in peptide powder but generally I'm skeptical of peptides doing much in cosmetics 
    - you can choose a variety of different molecular weight hyaluronic acids. The higher the molecular weight, the more it will just sit on top of the skin and the more it will form a thick gel when mixed with water.
    - if you want to tackle redness i would recommend niacinamide over mugwort powder but that's only because i'm more familiar with niacinamide for that application. 

     all that said, I'm not sure how any of these will perform when combined with the clays. Clays like bentonite swell and may reduce the 'efficacy' of some of your actives
    Thanks for this! I wanted to use a high and low molecular weight HLA so that it can deliver to different levels of the skin.

    Do you know if the clay will take precedence and absorb into the deepest levels-- thus "blocking' the actives to reach? I am very curious. I know certain oils and even silicone might do this to some degree. I wonder if there is a resource out there that spells this out and compares different mixed ingredients.

    I also wondered this for personal use. If I am layering a retinol cream, a HLA serum, and oil/moisturizer, how can I be sure that one active isn't occupying the pore and disallowing the others to work? Perhaps there should be a time lapse between each application? Maybe I am thinking too deeply into this..
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    ...
    10% grams Illite Clay
    15% grams Benonite clay
    15% french green clay
    10% Oat powder

    5% kelp powder
    10% honey powder
    5% ginseng powder
    5% mugwort powder
    10% green tea powder
    6% Macha powder
    3% HLA powder
    3% B5 powder
    2% Peptide powder
    1% aloe powder
    French green clay is mostly montmorillonite, bentonite contains about 60-80% montmorillonite. Apart from marketing, I don't see the advantage of adding both.
    Kelp powder will not do anything. It requires too much time to hydrate and liberate its ingredients. You might want to consider adding a kelp extract instead.
    Ginseng powder: Not as recalcitrant to water extraction than kelp but nearly as bad... got the same recommendation than there.
    Mugwort powder: Like with all plant powders, it is best extracted with hot water. Some actives might still come out when mixed with cold or lukewarm water. Again the same recommendation than above.
    Macha (which is by definition a fine powder) is just a variety of green tea which has been milled to a finer degree (most cells are crushed). Since you want your actives to get into solution ASAP after customers add water, I'd go with macha (it will be the only plant powder which will really release its active constituents). From a $$$ point of view, you're better off with green tea powder. These two are rich in caffeine (poorly soluble in cold water) and catechines. The latter might give a "tightening" effect (like leather tanning).
    B5 is usually pantothenic acid and hence not a powder but a syrupy liquid. Calcium panthotenate would be a salt.
    Aloe powder: What kind of aloe powder? Some qualities might clump badly if customers add water in a non-professional manner.
    What is peptide powder (too generic name)?
  • Thank you for the comments!

    I know a lot of these plant powders wont do a lot efficacy-wise, so I was putting them in there for mostly marketing reasons. But I do want this to work to some degree! Peptides, HLA and vitamin C are what i am relying on for efficacy. As for the peptide, I was thinking Hexapeptide 1, but I am still deciding on that one. Peptides are pricey, so I am price comparing online. I have heard that aloe clumps a lot! So I was planning on mixing this as well as possible. Do you think the aloe will re-clump? If so, I might omit or use a very small %. I was thinking a little bit of this:

    Aloe Powder

    Botanical Name: Aloe ferox

    Common Names: Indian Aloe, Barbados aloe, Curacao aloe

  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    It's hygroscopic, it might even clump if customers don't use the whole mask at once. You have to seal it hermetically.
    These biotech-peptides are usually used at much lower concentrations (probably they're just pixie dust).
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