OK, I know that I have a thread on this already, but I wanted to start a new thread to gauge your opinions. I acquired a sample of Microcare SB and made some samples of skin cream using 1% MSB. They were fine and passed PET. I then bought a 25 kg pail of MSB and scaled up. Unfortunately, the cream containing this new batch of preservative burnt the skin. I contacted the manufacturers who suggested I add the MSB at the aqueous stage. I did this, all fine, no burning. However, I've gone back after 2 weeks and every single jar of cream is full of mould!
At this stage, I am seriously considering suing the manufacturers. There must be a problem with the preservative first by burning the skin and secondly by allowing the cream to go mouldy. Here is my formulation, I would welcome your views on whether you think there could be a problem with the batch of preservative I bought. I have since changed the formula, but I am stuck with 60 kg of mouldy cream and have lost two contracts because of it. Thanks in advance for your help and advice.
INGREDIENTS (%):
Water - 64.4
Aloe Vera Powder 0.5
Solagum Tara - 0.3
Coconut Oil - 18
Olyvoyl Emulsifier - 3.8
Shea Butter - 8
Floraesters K100 - 2
Vegelane - 1
Soya Lecithin - 0.5
Microcare SB - 1
Lavender EO - 0.5
Citric Acid to pH 5.8.
Comments
If I were the ingredient supplier, that would be the first thing I would say.
The emulsifier is Olivoyl Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Cetearyl Alcohol, Glyceryl Oleate, Glyceryl Stearate, Potassium Hydroxide, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Benzoate.
Yes, we did the PET through a respected lab in the UK.
Any ideas why the MSB was causing burning to the skin previously?
I need to get to the bottom of this. The loss for me is >$100k and we are a small business so pretty devastating really.
The problem with the skin burning is most likely from the Potassium Sorbate causing a flushing reaction. This is common in many people with product containing Potassium Sorbate.
The problem with the preservation is that you are at the very upper limit on the effectiveness of this preservative combination (max 6.0, but really more around 5.0) and with Lecithin and Aloe Vera in your formula you are inadequately preserved against yeast/mold. Also note that you do not have a chelating agent in your formula which would help with preservation. I would have suspected you would have failed the PCT.
No offense, but it appears that the problem is not the preservative per-se, but the choice of preservative and a formula that is inadequately preserved given the ingredients.
I don't think you have much of a case regarding filing suit against the manufacturer of the preservative.
See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
- Switch to a different preservative (Benzyl Alcohol in this case)
- Ditch the Aloe Vera
- Ditch the Soya Lecithin
- Bring the pH down to <5.
Is that looking better? Thanks.
- Add Naticide 0.6%.
I think those changes will go a long way towards solving your problem. Perhaps you should submit samples of your new formula to more than one lab to ensure the PCT results are all positive.
When you submitted your samples to the lab with a pH of 5.8 and Benzoate/Sorbate as the sole preservative, it should have raised some eyebrows.
See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
I see ... so you did a PCT with the product at a pH of 3.9, but then raised the pH to 5.8, but did not do another PCT. So, you actually did not pass a PCT at pH 5.8? ... that makes more sense.
Gaby, you really should have a professional chemist advise you to make sure that all is in order before you make your next scale-up batch. You are unfortunately learning the hard way from some mistakes on issues that are the most fundamental basics ... You must always run a PCT on a sample of the product that you are actually going to manufacture. If you run a PCT, but then make a change to the formula, particularly adjusting the pH up, you need to run another PCT to verify that the revised formula passes PCT.
See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
When the product has a pH of 3.9 you actually had more sorbic acid in the formula than the potassium sorbate. When you raised the pH to 5.8 you shifted the equilibrium so you had more potassium sorbate and less active sorbic acid. You reduced the irritation potential but also reduced the effectiveness of the ingredient as a preservative.
However, it seems that neither really understood what was going on. For that reason, I am very grateful to this site.
In that case, let me rephrase my advice to you ... have a competent professional chemist review everything before you scale up your next batch.
Were your chemist consultants aware that you were scaling-up without running a PCT on the sample at pH 5.8? That's the only reasonable scenario that makes sense, because all of this is very basic.
That you were going to have preservation problems popped right out upon first reviewing your list of ingredients.
See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
Dec 2017:
I undertook a Cosmetic Chemistry course with a view to launching my own skincare range. I have a science degree and an MBA and a background in retail.
May 2018:
I approached a cosmetic chemist "Carol" and asked her to formulate an organic palm oil-free emulsion for me. She is well-qualified and teaches this subject. She came up with the recipe above with Microcare DB as the only preservative. We made the samples and ran PET and Stability. It passed.
July 2018:
I received an order for a large quantity of skin cream, based on this formula. Unfortunately, the client did not want MDB so we switched to Potassium Sorbate & Sodium Benzoate. Ran PET & Stability again. All good.
Sep 2018:
I was unable to find a manufacturer to make the cream within a time frame and at an MOQ that worked for me, so I decided to grow upon my limited knowledge and make it myself. By now, Carol the Chemist had started ghosting me and to this day I have no idea why. She ignored my increasingly desperate emails and then phonecalls, however I noticed she still posted on Instagram so was obviously fine. I have since discovered that she has form for this kind of behaviour.
Feb 2019:
I received another large order based on the original samples we sent out. I now had two very large orders to fulfill.
March 2019:
I retained the services of another cosmetic chemist "Rachel" to review our formulas and formulate some more products for us. She advised that as we were using Potassium Sorbate and Sodium Benzoate, that we should switch to Microcare SB as it is basically the same. We got samples from the manufacturers and all was fine. The pH at this time was 3.65-3.95, as advised by Carol.
April 2019:
Bought a 25 kg pail of MSB. As the samples had been fine we proceeded to scale up to 60 kg. From that batch, we experienced the skin burning. I approached the manufacturers who told me to bring the pH up to 5.8. We did. All looked good, so made another 60 kg. All went mouldy.
July 2019:
The company who placed the second order have pulled out and the company who placed the first order are now demanding their deposit back. Right now, I need a miracle.
I just want to add that I am hugely grateful for the support and expertise on this forum and I hope that my experiences can help others.
Gaby
So, the bottom line is: You adjusted the pH to 5.8, but never ran a PCT on the product that was adjusted to pH 5.8?
See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
A few lesson I take from this...
1. Always run stability (including PET) tests on the final formula & the first production run!
2. Unless you have a lot of experience and knowledge, stick with parabens and formaldehyde donors. These preservatives are tried-and-true & also safe.
3. Don't let your client dictate your preservative system without transferring the risk of microbial failure onto them.
4. Be weary of cosmetic formulators or other "experts" who are good on Instagram. They likely spend more time on social media than on keeping up with formulating.
It does not appear that you have any options other than to refund the money. Ultimately, the manufacturer of a product is solely responsible for ensuring their products meet the expectations of the end client and is safe for use by consumers. Since you did the manufacturing yourself, that would be you.
It's a tough lesson to learn, but you simply have to run PCT on all products that go to manufacturing. I'm sure the supplier of the preservative thought a pH of 5.8 would be fine and told you so in good faith, but they should also have suggested you run a PCT or at a minimum a microbial plate test prior to shipping any product to customers and/or you should have known to take this precaution on your own.
I'll add to Perry's list:
(5) Don't ever put Lecithin in a product unless you have absolutely no choice.
See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
When a potential client tells me they are intending to "self-manufacture" the products I develop for them as opposed to working through a contract manufacturer, I immediately turn down the business.
All it takes is one or two experiences with this and any chemist can tell you ... the amount of the chemists' time & energy that gets burnt up with incessant questions and frantic phone calls from such a client makes it such that you could never even come out financially break-even on this kind of arrangement, much less make a profit.
See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
Thanks for all your help, I wish I had found this site earlier.
By the way, this...
(5) Don't ever put Lecithin in a product unless you have absolutely no choice.
... has to be the best advice I have ever received. Just highlighting it in case it helps anyone else. I will let you know how I get on at the manufacturers. Thanks for all your help and support, it is much appreciated.
Just to add, please go easy on small businesses such as mine. We don't all have big budgets to outsource everything. We are just doing our best, some of us to support a family, as I am.
The formula is generic ... it's not really a moisturizer and it does not appear to be designed to have any particular effect. So, yes, it kind of does look like a homecrafter's formula on Etsy. What specifically are you intending this formula to be marketed as ... a moisturizer, a body cream?
The good news is that you were able to get two customers to buy it, so don't fret too much about it. But, you might want to consider adding some functional ingredients unless your intention all along was to make a basic body cream, in which case you're fine with the formula as is.
See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
I doubt you can even get your money back, since the product wasn't defective, just improperly used.
Next time do some challenge testing.
Better yet, check preservative MICs Minimum Inhibitory Concentrations and you'll see that they are almost guaranteed to fail challenge testing, unless you use huge amounts of them.
You can try parabens below the EU limits (methylparaben 0.4%, propylparaben 0.14%) used at 75-90% of that limits and they work so much better.
I still have to see a single product to fail challenge testing with that (but we don't add natural or hard to preserve products)
Add some EDTA 0.1% if you want.
Paraben scaremongers can GTHO Get The Hell Out.
I had another bad experience with a contract manufacturer before I went to "Carol." I paid them $3k to make a tan for us. They made a great sample, however they had used one wrong essential ingredient so I asked for another sample. Months went by. The chemist ignored all my communications. Then out of the blue after 6 or 7 months I got an email from the company telling me that the chemist had left the company but not to worry - they had employed another genius chemist by the name of T.S. (preserving her anonymity here). They told me she had years of experience and would look after our case.
I went straight onto Linkedin and found her, but discovered that she was in fact just an admin person who they had promoted to Head Chemist. She hadn't even been to university, let alone got any kind of chemistry degree.
So for those of you who question why unqualified people like myself end up doing our own formulating, this is why. I am sure things are better in the US. Alas, some of us are in the backwaters of countries like Australia where it is impossible to get anything done properly.
Why do you not just hire competent, professional chemist(s) who are members of the Society Of Cosmetic Chemists?
You have to be credentialed to be accepted into SCC, so an organization has already done the credential screening for you ... SCC memberships does not mean the individual will be a talented chemist or have great business ethics, but at least you know they are an actual chemist.
Many of us service clients on a global basis and the only real drawbacks are the time/expense of shipping samples through customs and time differentials for communications. But, other than that ... it makes no difference what country you are located in. Now, having your product manufactured is another matter as you will want to do that in-country.
I'm curious if this "Carol" is an actual chemist or a poser?
See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
https://ascc.com.au/
See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
Before “Carol”, I was using another formulator, Rita, who had come highly recommended. I asked her to make us a foaming tan (this was before we went organic and palm oil-free). She made it within a few days and it was great! It sold out very quickly so I asked her to make some more. She told me I had to drive to her lab to deliver some DHA for the tan. It was the first day of my new (day) job, but I risked it to take the DHA to her. That was the last I heard from her. I called and emailed, left messages through mutual contacts... nothing. I didn’t even get my DHA back.
And before her there was Diane. Again, very keen. Long career with L’Oreal. I found her details on a professional website. After the initial few emails we arranged to meet. She didn’t turn up. Full of apologies, arranged to meet again, but didn’t turn up and I never heard from her again.
See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
Providing a service like formulation requires more than knowledge of how to formulate. It also requires some interpersonal skills, business skills and ethics. Just because someone can whip up a good formulation, doesn't mean they'll do a good job for everyone.
I'd still recommend working with a formulator who has a science background over one who doesn't. But that's never a guarantee.