How to formulate a properly foaming cationic cleansing conditioner?

GuntherGunther Member
edited March 5 in Formulating
I have been trying to formulate properly foaming cleansing conditioners
cationics don't foam much on their own, so an additional, mild surfactant must be added

So far I have tried:
CAPB and glucosides = they thin out and destabilize emulsion at higher concentrations needed for proper foaming
ethoxylated fatty alcohols = not that mild
anionics = not compatible with BTMS or CETAC cationics
Sodium lauroyl sarcosinate = just ordered it, waiting for it to arrive to try it

Any other ideas?


The basic formulas I have tried are something like
- water q.s. to 100%
- Methylparaben  0.3%
- Propylparaben  0.1%
- BTMS-50  3-5%
- CETAC  0-0.5% active  (it improves foam a bit, but also thins out the formulation, unless cetearyl alcohol is added)
- Polyquaternium-7  0-0.5% active
- Cetearyl alcohol  0-4%  (it reduces foam a bit, but increases viscosity and seems to improve emulsion stability)
- Silicones (dimethicone, dimethiconol)  0-1% active. Will replace them with Amodimethicone, as they seem to reduce foaming too.
- Synthetic fragrance
- Polyox WSR301  0-0.1%

Thanks

Comments

  • Sarcosinate is anionic too... I am sure you will find a use for it, but it probably won't work with BTMS
  • GuntherGunther Member
    Sarcosinate is anionic too... I am sure you will find a use for it, but it probably won't work with BTMS
    Ain't Sodium lauroyl sarcosinate supposed to be compatible with cationics like CETAC or Behentrimonium?
    https://www.crodapersonalcare.com/en-gb/products-and-applications/product-finder/product/170/Crodasinic_1_LS30
  • Sorry @Gunther, I couldn't find any info on it's compatability with cationics. Which document are you referring to? 

    Even if it's not compatible with cationics, it's an incredible surfactant. I received mine two days ago and was very impressed. I coudn't not achieve similar result with any other surfactant I have ever tried. Still figuring out how to thicken it properly.
  • GuntherGunther Member
    Sorry @Gunther, I couldn't find any info on it's compatability with cationics. Which document are you referring to? 

    Even if it's not compatible with cationics, it's an incredible surfactant. I received mine two days ago and was very impressed. I coudn't not achieve similar result with any other surfactant I have ever tried. Still figuring out how to thicken it properly.
    Several formulas in the Internet have sarcosinates along cationics like CETAC.
    Table 2: High Lather Crème Rinse Shampoo
    Component Composition (w/w) %
    Sodium lauroyl sarcosinate, 30% 20.0
    Coco betaine, 35% 10.0
    Lauramide DEA 5.0
    Cetrimonium chloride, 30% 0.8
    Steralkonium chloride, 25% 0.1
    Disodium DTA 0.2
    Water, perfume, preservative q.s.

    Do you know if sarcosinates can be thickened with Crothix or Carbopol?
  • Crothix works. I almost gave up already and then tried crothix.
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