How to suspend dimethicone in SLES based shampoos?

GuntherGunther Member
edited February 19 in Formulating
The dimethicone suitable emulsifiers I know of (BTMS, behentrimonium, cetrimonium) are cationic, thus incompatible with the anionic SLES.

This patent mentions using ethylene glycol stearates to suspend silicones
 More preferred are the ethylene glycol stearates, both mono and distearate, but particularly the distearate containing less than about 7% of the mono stearate.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5837661.html
Can you use pearlizers to suspend dimethicone? This is new to me.


Comments

  • It also mentions using
    -stearic monoethanolamide, stearic diethanolamide, stearic monoisopropanolamide and stearic monoethanolamide stearate. 
    - N,N-dihydrocarbyl amido benzoic acid and soluble salts thereof (e.g., Na and K salts), particularly N,N-di(hydrogenated) C16, C18 and tallow amido benzoic acid species of this family, which are commercially available from Stepan Company
    -  stearyl dimethyl amine oxide
    -  xanthan gum at concentrations ranging from about 0.3% to about 3%, preferably from about 0.4% to about 1.2%, by weight

    What do you guys have tried?
    Thanks in advance.
  • Why would you want to destroy the foaming capability by adding dimethicone?
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Unless you have very specific reasons to develop an emulsifying system by yourself, I would recommend using the silicone emulsions already present on the market. Many can be incorporated in shampoos and are very easy to use.

    Also, take a look at polymers like Carbopol SF, which can aid in the stabilization of silicones in anionic surfactants systems.


  • Some surfactants are ‘stronger emulsifiers’ than others. For example olefin sulfonate has relatively good emulsification properties. But you will actually reduce foam. Is PEG-8 dimethicone an option?
  • Belassi said:
    Why would you want to destroy the foaming capability by adding dimethicone?
    Because of silicones adding lubricity, shine, a protectant hair coating.
    Many big brands use silicones so they can't be that bad.


    Vnnil said:
    Unless you have very specific reasons to develop an emulsifying system by yourself, I would recommend using the silicone emulsions already present on the market. Many can be incorporated in shampoos and are very easy to use.

    Also, take a look at polymers like Carbopol SF, which can aid in the stabilization of silicones in anionic surfactants systems.



    Some surfactants are ‘stronger emulsifiers’ than others. For example olefin sulfonate has relatively good emulsification properties. But you will actually reduce foam. Is PEG-8 dimethicone an option?
    Right now I'm debating on placing a special order on a water soluble/dispersible silicone, vs a placing a special order on a silicone-specific emulsifier.
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    edited February 22
    This is my preference probably, but I don't like any oils in my surfactants. I often use watersoluble shea butter (I have two varieties) and PEG-8 Dimethicone. Regarding dimethicone and cyclomethicone, they make a great leave-in detangler at 20/80 proportion. Super simple and efficient product.
  • GuntherGunther Member
    edited February 23
    Lots of big brand shampoos use glycol distearate to suspend silicones.

    I have Euperlan PK771 pearlizer in the lab and it contains glycol distearate
    Sodium Laureth Sulfate (and) Glycol Distearate (and) Cocamide MEA (and) Laureth-10
    https://www.ulprospector.com/en/eu/PersonalCare/Detail/804/34189/Euperlan-PK-771-Benz
    I'll do some experimenting to see if it actually helps suspend silicones (and add a pearlized look in the process).


    Herbal essences curvas peligrosas shampoo (made in Mexico)
    Aqua, Sodium laureth sulfate, Sodium lauryl sulfate, GLYCOL DISTEARATE, DIMETHICONE,  Sodium citrate, cocamide MEA, Sodium xylenesulfonate, cocamidopropylbetaine, parfum, citric acid, Sodium benzoate, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chlorid, Sodium chloride, tetrasodium EDTA, hexyl cinnamal, butylphenyl methylpropional, zea mays silk extract, prunus serotina fruit extract, orchid extract, CI 42090, CI17200, methylchloroisothiazolinone, methylisothiazolinone.
    https://herbalessences.com.mx/es-mx/comprar/colecciones/curvas-peligrosas/herbal-essences-shampoo-para-pelo-curvas-peligrosas



    Sedal liso perfecto shampoo (also made in Mexico)
    Aqua, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Sodium Chloride, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Glycerin, DIMETHICONOL, Parfum, GLYCOL DISTEARATE, Carbomer, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Cocamide Mea, Disodium Edta, Mica, Titanium Dioxide, Dmdm Hydantoin, Peg-45m, Paraffinum Liquidum, Arginine, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Benzyl Benzoate, Hexyl Cinnamal, Limonene, Linalool, Sodium Hydroxide, Citric Acid. 


  • Belassi said:
    Why would you want to destroy the foaming capability by adding dimethicone?
    You were totally right, this study shows that dimethicone reduces foam a lot lot.

    Silicones as conditioning agents in shampoo
    Kazuyiki Yahagi

    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=B1BB72C01A6C21C29D10EC5D08C4910A?doi=10.1.1.516.2089&rep=rep1&type=pdf
    This may explain why so many big brand shampoos add SLS to SLES, to boost foam lost by dimethicone.

  • Silicones are known for this because they reduce surface tension. This is how they remove soaping in lotions. Watersoluble silicones do impact foam as well but much less.
  • chemicalmattchemicalmatt Member, Professional Chemist
    Don't know about "suspension" of dimethicone, but the classic method of incorporating these into shampoo systems used for many decades is to employ a little sodium xylene sulfonate (40% is RM standard) along with a medium-high mw dimethicone, say 1000 - 10,000cst. Even better: add low mw polyquaternium-10 (JR-400) to the shampoo and your deposition will be 500% better. or, stop asking us and just read Des Goddard's book. (How often do I have to tell people?) 
  • Don't know about "suspension" of dimethicone, but the classic method of incorporating these into shampoo systems used for many decades is to employ a little sodium xylene sulfonate (40% is RM standard) along with a medium-high mw dimethicone, say 1000 - 10,000cst. Even better: add low mw polyquaternium-10 (JR-400) to the shampoo and your deposition will be 500% better. or, stop asking us and just read Des Goddard's book. (How often do I have to tell people?) 
    Thanks
    May I ask what Des Goddard book are you referring to?
    He seems to have written several books.
  • I don’t understand what is the problem with asking questions. Cosmetic formulation is a niche profession. There’s literally no information online. For someone with full time job for whom it’s a hobby it’s easier to ask a question instead of digging information in chemistry books. The absolute majority of them are outdated and not user friendly. Also when a hobbyist asks a question like ‘will tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate reduce viscosity of aristoflex?” Professionals of this forum start complaining that this question wastes their time and suggest ‘just go and try’. Sorry guys but one oz of the above mentioned active is $50 on lotioncrafter plus delivery plus customs fee. It’s easier to ask than wasting expensive material. I am not suggesting that experiments and research aren’t required but if you don’t like the question and believe that the person is lazy and doesn’t want to read don’t respond. This is what I do.
  • pepepepe Member
    You can introduce dimethicone just inside SLES itself and stir slowly. Then after you can add this mixture into the main vessel. The final viscosity is very important at least you need to get 5000-10000cp
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