Need help with preservatives


  Can anyone help me with preservatives for hand wash and liquid dishwash? I am using DMDM Hydantoin. But I am looking for safe and non toxic preservative . 

Comments

  • Sodium benzoate 0.3% and pH <5 and use a chelator, EG: EDTA.
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  • Parabens used below the EU limits
    <0.4% methylparaben
    <0.14% propylparaben
    Almost guaranteed to work, even if they leave the bottle open and some rotten food particles get into it.
  • Gunther said:
    Parabens used below the EU limits
    <0.4% methylparaben
    <0.14% propylparaben
    Almost guaranteed to work, even if they leave the bottle open and some rotten food particles get into it.


       Should I use both?

     0.3% methylparaben and 0.12% propylparaben. 
  • Belassi said:
    Sodium benzoate 0.3% and pH <5 and use a chelator, EG: EDTA.

      pH of my product is between 5.5 to 6.5. and yes I am using EDTA
  • You can use Phenoxyethnaol and Ethylhexylglycerin
  • vjay said:
    You can use Phenoxyethnaol and Ethylhexylglycerin

     what %?
  • DMDM is a safe preservative
  • @vjay, phenoxyethanol doesn't protect from the mold. You can't use it as the only preservative, you should pair with other preservatives. 
  • @vjay, phenoxyethanol doesn't protect from the mold. You can't use it as the only preservative, you should pair with other preservatives. 


    @vay posted:  "You can use Phenoxyethanol and Ethylhexylglycerin" ... that is a combination of preservatives that should work perfectly fine in this product class
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    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • Perry said:
    DMDM is a safe preservative
    I m using DMDM up to 0.5% And no other preservatives.. Is it safe?
  • Well, that depends on what else is in your formula. But DMDM is safe for use up to 1%.

    Of course, you have to do a preservative efficacy test to determine whether your formula is safe when using only DMDM Hydantoin. 
  • Euxyl 9010 is used at 1%.10% out of 1% is Ethylhexylglycerin. Can 0.1% of Ethylhexylglycerin provide reasonable protection from the mold? In this case, what is the reason to create a version with Benzyl Alcohol that is known to be active against mold?

    https://www.cosmeticsandtoiletries.com/formulating/function/preservatives/Euxyl-K-940-Stays-Bold-Against-Mold-381148551.html
  • Could be for a variety of reasons, the primary one being that some clients may not want Benzyl Alcohol in their formulations since it is a known irritant.  Others may not have a problem with that.  They are in the business of developing preservatives, so logical that they would come up with as many blend combinations as possible to broaden their product portfolio.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • I managed to grow (unintentionally of course) an impressive colony of dark grey mold on the product preserved by 1% euxyl 9010. 
    I admit it contained 10% of kaolin that is no easy to preserve, but Germaben II did well with the same product (4 months, no visible mold). So, I would not rely on euxyl 9010 for every product.
  • No one said that Euxyl 9010 was an appropriate preservative for every product.  Proper Preservation is much more than just adding one ingredient to a product ... it involves hurdle technology apporaches using a variety of ingredients such as glycols to reduce water activity, chelants, preservative potentiators and the preservative itself.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • Well, it makes no sense to add chelator to the product I mentioned above. It has 10% of clay. It will overwhealm EDTA. I can't add glycols either because it's a gommage. I need it to peel off. Glycols work as humectants and the product will never become dry enough to peel it off (I tried propylene, butylene and not glycol but glycerin). All I am saing Euxyl 9010 can't be considered broad spectrum compaing with preservatives like Germaben II and Phenonip. It is particularly weak against the mold.
  • First of all, this discussion has nothing to do with your particular product.

    Euxyl 9010 is indeed a broad spectrum preservervative.  EHG functions by weaking the cell membrane wall, so it will affect bacteria, yeast and mold.  Again, proper preservation is not simply a matter of adding one ingredient to a product.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • ravimosai said:
    vjay said:
    You can use Phenoxyethnaol and Ethylhexylglycerin

     what %?
    Combination is available in Euxyl PE 9010 - 1%
  • edited January 5
    Again, proper preservation is not simply a matter of adding one ingredient to a product.
    Totally agreed.

    @ngarayeva001
    We as homecrafters usually have to rely on 'stronger/sturdy' preservatives like Germaben II, (Liquid) Germall Plus etc because we usually don't do tests. And especially when stuff like clay is included. Plus we can never achieve the same level like the industry cGMP-wise (air treatment etc).
    And even blends like Germaben can lose its 'strength'. Especially the parabens in it are said to interact with several substances.
    For as far as I know (Liquid) Germall Plus has the least interactions and is very versatile, maybe that's why Susan from Swift uses it most of the time.
    (Edit: I also use the hurdle approach when using Germaben and Germall btw)

    But not all people here asking (preservative) questions are homecrafters.

    Euxyl PE9010 indeed is broad spectrum, it can be sufficient for molds also, as Mark explains. It totally depends on your exact formula if it is the right choice in a certain %. Only by doing microbial tests like challenge testing one can be sure. Any change to a formula, even minute ones, would justify retesting.
  • If you don't do either a microbial plate test, strip test or Preservative Challenge Test, you have absolutely no idea whether or not your preservation approach is working or not.  While the growth of mold may be obvious to the eye, other forms of microbial contamination are not at all obvious to the eye or smell.

    Even if you are a homecrafter, you should at least run strip tests on your batches to see if you have any contamination.  They are readily available from a couple of the homecrafter ingredient sites.

    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • edited January 6
    If you don't do either a microbial plate test, strip test or Preservative Challenge Test, you have absolutely no idea whether or not your preservation approach is working or not.  While the growth of mold may be obvious to the eye, other forms of microbial contamination are not at all obvious to the eye or smell.

    Even if you are a homecrafter, you should at least run strip tests on your batches to see if you have any contamination.  They are readily available from a couple of the homecrafter ingredient sites.

    Absolutely true. I can get those from work, so it's easy for me (the plates expire fast, so this is better (and cheaper) than ordering abroad).
    I also want to have challenge tests done in the future, with several preservative blends.
  • @MarkBroussard
    Point with the plates/strip tests is that as a homecrafter you can't do these in a cleanroom under the right circumstances, so you'll never know 100% sure, the contamination might also have come from the air.
    I can get the plates extremely cheap and it's nice as extra test, but the best way of course is to let these tests be done by a lab, where everything is completely in order cGMP-wise.
  • @Doreen:

    These strip tests do not need to be done in a clean room.  They are designed to be placed in an incubator.  The likelihood that you would ever get any contamination from the air is negligible.  And, if your preservative is working properly, it won't matter where the contamination comes from ... the preservative will do its job.

    Unless your packaging is airless containers, once a container is opened in a customer's home, it's going to be exposed to the air in the house.  The whole idea is to test products simulating real-world conditions, not laboratory conditions per se.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • This is all you need ... a small incubator & dipslides ... all available from Schulke:

    http://www.mikrocount.com/mikrocount-en/Cultura-Brutschrank.php
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • I read that microbial tests from suppliers like lotioncrafter are far from being accurate.
  • @ngarayeva001

    Nonsense ... Schuelke is the leading microbial testing company in Europe and these tests are used extensively in a wide variety of industrial applications.  It's nothing more than an agar growth medium which is commonly used in micro labs for plate tests.  If you fail a dipstick test, there is no way you are going to pass a PCT, so they are reliable screening tests.  In fact, if you have any growth at all on a dipstick test, then you know for certain that your preservative system is not working.

    Now, I don't know about the quality of dipsticks from Lotioncrafter, but no reason why those would not work the same ... in fact, they may well buy them from Schulke and repackage them.

    If you are a homecrafter and you are relying on nothing more than looking at your samples to see if you can detect microbial growth, you have absolutely no clue whether your concoctions are adequately preserved or not.  
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • I don’t have an idea if something is preserved, but if I see a mold on the surface I clearly know it’s not. That was the reason why I brought up my experience with Euxyl. If not sure add parabens. If someone has a chance to send a sample for a test multiple times, it’s definitely better to do it.
  • edited January 7
    You should not rely on "add parabens" as if that was a cure-all for preservation. 

    Every formula is different and the preservation strategy that works for one formula may not work for another similar formula.  The only way to know is to test. 

    It's simple ... if you don't test, you don't know.  Unless, of course, you can see mold growth, but the real issue is just what is it that you can't see growing in your sample?  

    There is no need to "send a sample for a test mulitple times" ... simply use a dipstick for a scoping confirmation on preservation.  Again, since you're a homecrafter who is not making commercial products, that's all you need if you want some modicum of certainty.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • @ngarayeva001
    There is nothing wrong with the slides from Lotioncrafter I think, it's that some people believe that only Preservative Challenge Tests are useful.
    A slide or plate test of course only tells you that there is contamination by bacteria, yeast or fungi, it doesn't tell you the species. Sometimes it's obvious, but many times it isn't. (To me at least, as I'm not a microbiologist.) So you won't know if the microbe growing on the plate is a pathogen or not.

    I understand the people who believe that, but personally I still find the plates useful. If there is no contamination it assures me that the batch is ok, if there is, I just throw it away. You only need a bit of patience to wait before you can use that what you have just made.

    I don't know about the slides, but the plates get contaminated very quickly, which has been a reason that a type of plate we used at work to test surfaces was 'double sterilized'. This meant that not only the plates are sterilized, but also the primary packaging material around it. It was more expensive, but finally we had no more contamination of the unused plates (also no more condensated water in it). Before that we were in doubt if the contamination came from anything else than the subject we had tested.

    @MarkBroussard
    I agree with you that contamination rarely comes from particles in the air and that you want to test real life situations.
    The point I tried to make was, that if you would test your concoction in a 'dirty' environment, you might not know if the contamination came from the environment or from your product.
    But you're right, no matter the source, any contamination would point out that the way the product is preserved isn't adequate or else the microbes would have been eradicated by it. Thanks for reminding me of that.
  • @Doreen:

    Yes, if you have any microbial growth in a product it fails ... it does not matter if the organism is pathogenic or not, you simply fail because your preservative is not preventing all microbial growth.

    Yes, you want to use GMP in making your batches, but once the product is being used by a a consumer, it will be exposed to the untreated ambient air and their fingers ... so these are the real world conditions under which your preservative must be effective.

    Now, if you are a manufacturer making a number of products for different customers, any extraneous source of microbial contamination will affect all of your production, so it will make sense to install UV lamps in your facility and in the HVAC system. 
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • Hello everyone; just out of curiosity i want to know use of Formalin as preservative?
    is there any limit of its use now?
    In our country its still being used by the local manufacturers. 
  • NOT permitted.
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