Polawax . . grrrrr

I've been making an incredible lotion with Polawax for 17 years and last 4 years I have battled to get the same result I did the first several years.  You will not convince me they didn’t change something. I see posts with the same complaint on various sites.  And the price has skyrocketed over the years ($90 for 5 lbs compared to $20 for a genetic ewax).  I’m tired of the battle and hoping to somehow re-create something close to their original formula.  Not trying to copy and steal.  Just trying to keep my sanity 😊.  Help.  

Comments

  • I found this online:

    Trade Name: PolawaxTM NF

    PolawaxTM NF consists of four ingredients. These are 


    Cetearyl Alcohol

    PEG-150 Stearate

    Polysorbate 60

    Steareth-20. 

  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    This is really an opportunity to explore newer and more advanced emulsifiers. Also, with that INCI name, it would prevent you from ethically saying that your product is "natural" under all standards. (Ethoxylated compounds).


    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • Can you suggest a place to start?   The majority of my products are 100% natural.  Others are at least 95%.  
  • I notice that Polawax has several different products.  Is it possible I’m not getting the one I started with?
  • Makingcosmetics have tons of emulsifiers blends. Check emulsifiers section. ‘Natural’ isn’t defined. You need to understand what ‘natural’ standard you are trying to comply with (ecocert etc).
  • I was hoping to formulate an emulsifying wax so I don’t end up like I am now again.  
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    Can you suggest a place to start?   The majority of my products are 100% natural.  Others are at least 95%.  
    If you are using ethoxylated products (Polysorbate 60,  Steareth-20 or PEG-100 Stearate), your product isn't "natural" by third-party standards.

    Also, 100% Natural is a dangerous claim to make. There is another thread on these standards.

    As far as suggesting a naturally-based emulsifier, there are many plant-derived emulsifiers allowed by the standards. Since natural has no defined definition, I would follow the direction of these standards. There are numerous emulsifiers endorsed by ECOCERT/COSMOS.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    edited December 2018
    I pulled this off UL Prospector.



    Keep in mind that none of these is as simple as Polawax (Ewax is another variation) but the products are better. These emulsifiers are heads and tails above Ewax. In fact, I used the last of my Ewax in my grand-daughters STEM class since I never use it. 


    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    Since many of those listed are sold at higher MOQ's, they may not be feasible. I would look at sites such as Formulator Sample Shop as they may carry some on the list. They also provide Formulation Guidelines and starting Formulas.

    Honestly, Ewax is popular since it is so easy to use. As a mentor once said. "Use 25% of the total oils and add a percentage if it isn't Polawax. That makes for an easy process but between it not being credibly "natural" and the soaping effects, this is an opportunity to use a raw material compliant to a natural standard and not "natural" undefined.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • THANK YOU do far for all of the comments and suggestions.  I will need to study all of this on my computer where I can see it all clearly and click on the links.  

    As for using sing the term “natural” I make CP soap that is scented 100% with essential oils.  I consider these natural.  I also make face oil blends that are preserved with rosemary extract.  I consider these natural as well as my hyaluronic acid serum that is preserved with a radish/coconut fermentation.  

    I guess I am loosely using the term “natural” but seems to be what is considered natural generally online.  

    I never even even imagined I could formulate a natural lotion with all of the water content.  And I don’t claim it to be natural.  I am fine with a label that states 95 or 92% natural.  I do like to give people the choice.  

    It it would be a dream to be able to claim that all my products are all natural.  Not sure I could pull that off since I would like to carry my lotion 😊

    im in the company of experts . . am I right on this?


  • The "natural" soap is a highly alkaline product and it technically has no free water in it. It doesn't need a preservative. If your face oils blends have no water in it, they do not need preservative (with certain caveats). But anything with water needs a preservative. And I would be very worried about the HA serum, as I assume it has water and that radish thing you use doesn't sounds as a preservative to me.

    I do not recommend you to rely on what is considered "generally online". Most of DIY products are beyond terrible. That natural soap has an aggressive pH. All essential oils are cytotoxic or phototoxic. Natural preservatives fail. None of these fancy butters are even close to petrolatum in decreasing transdermal water loss. Nothing can replace silicones. I can talk about it for hours.
    Regarding natural emulsifiers, not being a huge fan of natural stuff myself, I tested 10 ecocert emulsifiers recently (I am curious). I really liked these two: Montanov L and  https://www.makingcosmetics.com/CreamMaker-FLUID_p_965.html (it's both Ecocert and COSMOS).

    If you ask me, I would say glyceryl stearate/PEG-100 stearate blend is the best our of conventional emulsifiers and it's the best replacement for polawax. It is not "natural" because of ethoxylated compounds, but it's very easy to use and if you pair it with 3-4% of cetyl alcohol and 0.2% of xantham (natural) or carbomer (better than xantham but not "natural") it will be quite stable. Just add fatty alcohols. Glyceryl stearate/PEG-100 stearate would make "fluffier" but liquid lotion if you don't add cetyl/cetearyl alcohol.
  • Read about your preservative (radish/coconut) here: http://makingskincare.com/preservatives/

  • This is us the preservative I use in my HA serum.  It has worked great. 

    https://activemicrotechnologies.com/product/leucidal-liquid-complete/
  • This is really an opportunity to explore newer and more advanced emulsifiers. Also, with that INCI name, it would prevent you from ethically saying that your product is "natural" under all standards. (Ethoxylated compounds).


    You are right.  Wow.  I started making lotion 18 years ago and I haven’t researched or really advanced since then and wasn’t even aware of what was available out there.  Apparently I can make lotion that is accepted as a natural formulation and sell it that way.  I have a lot to learn.  Thank you all SO much for sharing your expertise.  I placed an order at MakingCosmetics for some ingredients to get started.  
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    edited December 2018
    I am very glad that leucidal that provides poor protection from both gram positive  and gram negative bacteria and no protection from mold worked great for you. 
  • I am very glad that leucidal that provides poor protection from both gram positive  and gram negative bacteria and no protection from mold worked great for you. 
    Natural antimicrobial products are similar to synthetic preservative systems in that they are effective against bacteria, however most natural antimicrobial products lack broad-spectrum effectiveness against bacteria and fungi, specifically yeast and mold. Leucidal® Liquid Complete uses a combination of peptide technology to deliver moisturizing and conditioning benefits as well as providing broad-spectrum activity to protect against bacteria, yeast, and mold in one product.


    The original Leucidal Liquid did not work for me as mold formed.  However, I was introduced to Leucidal Complete and haven’t had any more problems.  
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    Leucidal / Leucidal Complete are highly formula dependent in their effectiveness, particularly against A. Brasilliensis.  I've had Leucidal Complete fail on more products than it has passed and I only use it if the client absolutely insists ... otherwise, I always advise against it as a main preservative.  
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • Leucidal / Leucidal Complete are highly formula dependent in their effectiveness, particularly against A. Brasilliensis.  I've had Leucidal Complete fail on more products than it has passed and I only use it if the client absolutely insists ... otherwise, I always advise against it as a main preservative.  
    The original LL actually worked for me for years without one problem.  Probably because my formula contained only water and 2% hyaluronic acid.  It wasn’t until I used some small bottles I ordered bulk from China that problems came.  So I switched to LC and Haven’t had any issues.  

    Could you suggest a better, stronger natural preservative or something I might add to strengthen the LC?  
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @VictoriaBee:

    There really is no need for you to switch from Leucidal Complete if it is working for you ... if it is passing these PCT, it's passing.  If you do want to supplement it, you might consider adding Naticide (Parfum) from Singera.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • @VictoriaBee:

    There really is no need for you to switch from Leucidal Complete if it is working for you ... if it is passing these PCT, it's passing.  If you do want to supplement it, you might consider adding Naticide (Parfum) from Singera.
    Do you know where I can find Naticide?  I only see it available on Amazon.  
  • DavidWDavidW Member, PCF student
    edited January 6
    @VictoriaBeeHave you been buying the brand name material?  Also, if you are buying from a DIY place as opposed to a distributor of the manufacturer you may not be getting the same (original) material.  I had a situation as a manufacturer where I needed a small amount of a chemical and bought from a reputable DIY website.  All was good till the 3rd time I purchased.  My product didn't come out the same.  Although they had the brand name listed on their website when I called and pressed them they admitted they had bought an equivalent.  This may be your problem.

    If you have any question PM me as I don't get a chance to read the forum as often as I would like.
  • chemicalmattchemicalmatt Member, Professional Chemist
    This thread began as "what comprises Polawax?" then morphed into "why use Leucidal?". Perry must have stepped out for a sandwich.  For the record Victoria, Polawax comprises Cetearyl Alcohol ~ 65 - 70% and Polysorbate 60 ("Tween 60") ~   30 - 35%. Add a little Ceteareth-20 for good measure and go ahead and call it "natural" since nobody in authority seems to care.  You can make your own using those components. At $18/lb. MakingCosmetics ought to be ashamed. I pay $2.25/lb. for it at commercial buy levels like they do, and it is NF grade to boot. (And here I thought Croda was ripping people off!) Finally, I agree with Mark: friends, don't let friends use Leucidal to preserve products unless there is a gun to their head.
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