Help with sulfate free shampoo formulation

Hello, I am trying hard to formulate a sulfate free shampoo with a specific function. I have years of experience with sulfate based shampoo's - but this is really testing me!
This will be aimed at professional dog groomers. It is a concentrated product to be diluted with water immediately before use.
Once the below formula is made and left to settle, I am seeing slight cloudiness through some of the samples. There is also Ph fluctuation of over 5%. I think I've balanced it, but an hour later it has crept up in alkalinity. I am stirring by hand.
Could somebody please review the recipe and method and give me an idea of what might be happening. Thank you.

PHASE 1

Lauryl glucoside 60%

Caprylyl/Capryl glucoside 10%

TegoBetaine 10%

 PHASE 2

Aqua 17.32%

Organic Aloe Powder x 200 0.07%

Hydrolysed Wheat Protein Powder 0.1%

Glycerine 1.5%

Green Tea Extract 0.1%

Procide 2 1%

 PHASE 3

Citric Acid

 

1.5% Essential Oils

 

COLD MIX METHOD

Combine caprylyl glucoside with essential oils and slow stir for 15 minutes. Add Lauryl glucoside and heat until just melted. Add TegoBetaine and stir.

Add phase 2 ingredients and stir until homogenized

Add citric acid to desired Ph (6.5)


Comments

  • Are you using an emulsifier?
  • Hi, I'm using the Caprylyl/Capryl glucoside at 10%, to solubilise the essential oils.
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    First make a minimalist sample and get rid of the non-functional ingredients.

    So, no Aloe, no wheat protein, no green tea, and probably hold out the essential oils too.  Does that remain clear? How is the pH for that blend?

    After that you can try it with only adding back the essential oils. That's probably the problem. If that is the problem, you pretty much will need to either find a solubilizer for the oils or switch to different essential oils. I'd recommend getting a proper fragrance instead of working with EOs but I have no problems with synthetic ingredients.
  • You might need something a little stronger to help clear it up. A chelating agent might help keep the pH from fluctuating.
  • Thank you Perry.

    Should I add my functional ingredients at their original percentages, meaning the total is less than 100% and adjust the preservative accordingly?
  • Thanks globalwidget, are you reffering to a stronger surfactant? Time to go back to basics...

  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    The "adjustment" ingredient would be water in all cases. So, when you take volume out (removing an ingredient) you add water to compensate. When you put an ingredient in, you reduce water to compensate.
  • Thank you Perry.
  • Hello, I'm in a very similar situation. After years of formulating good transparent shampoos with APGs + SCS, I'm now having serious problems with new formulations only using APGs + Coco betaine.  When adjusting pH to 5.5 with citric acid, the previously transparent formula becomes turbid. Any suggestions please?

    PHASE 1

    Sodium Cocoyl glutamate + Sodium cocoyl rice amino acids 20%

    Lauryl glucoside 8%

    Caprylyl/Capryl glucoside 6%

    Coco Betaine 7%

    Lamesoft PO65 3%

     PHASE 2

    Aqua 42.64%

    Organic Aloe Powder x 200 0.16%

    Rice protein (liquid)  3%

    Glycerine 4%

    Sodium PCA 4%

    Geogard 221 0.8%

    Sodium benzoate 0.2%

    Potassium sorbate 0.2%

    Sodium gluconate 0.2%

    Xanthan gum 0.8%

     PHASE 3

    Citric Acid sol. 50% for pH 5.5


    COLD MIX METHOD

    Heat Lauryl glucoside until transparent and add to APGs. Slow stir for 15 minutes and add Coco betaine, stir then add Lamesoft, stir.  

    Mix phase 2 ingredients together. Add xanthan gum and homogenise until thickened.  

    Add phase 2 to phase 1 slowly under constant stirring for 15 mins until well blended.

    At this stage the formulation is very good- transparent and sufficiently thick with pH around 7.4.

    Add citric acid (sol. 50% ) slowly under stirring to pH (5.5). The mixture immediately becomes turbid. Any idea Why?

  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    Be careful. You say this is a vet product. What you need to know is that this is a very tight market. If you are looking to launch this into the Pet Care market, most of the fluff in the Formula will have to go. I created a similar Formula and it was approved. The next step was the client realizing that they were far too expensive for the market.

    The Vet Market has tight margins. Now, the next thing I hear from clients is "People will spend extra for their dogs." I may be wrong, but the "Prestige Market" and higher priced products one would expect in such a Market rarely is successful.

    Knowing this you can now see why Sulfate Shampoos are so common in this sector. Take my advice or leave it as I have no vested risk in the project of course, but remember it comes from the fact that many Vet products will get stripped down to match the process which the market sector will support. REMEMBER, in the end, the Market sets what they will pay for your product based upon many factors. You really don't set a price based on YOUR raw material costs.

    My 2 cents from almost 100 hours in Conference rooms trying to resolve the cost versus benefit in a very tight market.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    edited December 2018
    What are your Essential oils? Have they been vetted for Safety in Veterinary use? This is a very important safety measure.  (Original Posted Formula refers to 1.5% wt./wt. Essential oils without breaking them down).
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • What are your Essential oils? Have they been vetted for Safety in Veterinary use? This is a very important safety measure.  (Original Posted Formula refers to 1.5% wt./wt. Essential oils without breaking them down).

    Hello, I'm in a very similar situation. After years of formulating good transparent shampoos with APGs + SCS, I'm now having serious problems with new formulations only using APGs + Coco betaine.  When adjusting pH to 5.5 with citric acid, the previously transparent formula becomes turbid. Any suggestions please?

    PHASE 1

    Sodium Cocoyl glutamate + Sodium cocoyl rice amino acids 20%

    Lauryl glucoside 8%

    Caprylyl/Capryl glucoside 6%

    Coco Betaine 7%

    Lamesoft PO65 3%

     PHASE 2

    Aqua 42.64%

    Organic Aloe Powder x 200 0.16%

    Rice protein (liquid)  3%

    Glycerine 4%

    Sodium PCA 4%

    Geogard 221 0.8%

    Sodium benzoate 0.2%

    Potassium sorbate 0.2%

    Sodium gluconate 0.2%

    Xanthan gum 0.8%

     PHASE 3

    Citric Acid sol. 50% for pH 5.5


    COLD MIX METHOD

    Heat Lauryl glucoside until transparent and add to APGs. Slow stir for 15 minutes and add Coco betaine, stir then add Lamesoft, stir.  

    Mix phase 2 ingredients together. Add xanthan gum and homogenise until thickened.  

    Add phase 2 to phase 1 slowly under constant stirring for 15 mins until well blended.

    At this stage the formulation is very good- transparent and sufficiently thick with pH around 7.4.

    Add citric acid (sol. 50% ) slowly under stirring to pH (5.5). The mixture immediately becomes turbid. Any idea Why?


  • Hell Microformulation, sorry I'm new to asking questions on this forum.  I'm puretsimple and not poochie who made the original post for a vet product.

    Maybe I should have created a new post??

    But I'm posting here because I have a similar problem with APGs and turbidity when readjusting with CA.

    My formula is a personal care product, not for a vetinary product like poochie. Costing is ok- turbidity is the problem.

    No essential oils...

    Any suggestions? Thankyou!
  • You should create a new post listing your formula.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Thanks Belassi, I'll do just that!
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