low irritant 80 % of total actives are CAPB

FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
who have idea about the effect of using high level of betaine "CAPB"  80% or higher of total actives in the irritant effect of product?
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  • I have one formula with 70% CAPB of total actives. I tried 80%, but I find that  70% is good enough and foams better (because of decyl glucose that is a foam booster). Tested on 6 people (I understand not many) and it is tear free. You can lather your face and open your eyes. It’s a foaming face wash with total surfactants of 10%, 7 of which CAPB and the remainder is decyl glucoside and coco glucoside.
  • Fekher said:
    who have idea about the effect of using high level of betaine "CAPB"  80% or higher of total actives in the irritant effect of product?
    The odd thing is that 100% CAPB is more irritating than 90%.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @Gunther  I made the same constatation , but even it seems strange that what experiences gave and the stranger That this study used just SLES as other surfactant with CAPB. So as first impression SLES supposed can not reduce the irritant effect of CAPB However the experiences proved the opposit.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    Thanks @ngarayeva001 always giving help @Chemist77 @Perry @DAS have you an idea about that ?
  • I wouldn't pay much attention to this chart, without knowing what else is in the formula (it says surfactant mix) and how is the irritation test made, the data is irrelevant. A full study or experimentation will give you a better insight.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @Das actully the study gives details it is just a curve from the study what i shared about surfactants it is just a blend of only SLES et CAPB.
  • DavidDavid Member
    edited November 2018
    Cosmetic formulating is often about synergies between ingredients and optimising mixtures. It is not at all surprising that mixing two irritant ingredients together can give mildness as a result.
  • Interesting study, but still irrelevant. If you are not using SLES as your main surfactant, you don't use it at all. 
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    Update actually even using 90% CAPB Actives dosen't lead for free tear product when it used with only SLES.
  • @Fekher, do you have access to decyl glucoside in your market? If yes, try 80% CAPB 20% of Decyl Glucoside with the total active surfactants of 10%. It should work.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @ngarayeva001 i will try to find it but may i will try a level lower then 80% CAPB , actully i want making high quality shampoo.
  • I actually think that 70% will work. Try to get both decyl glucoside and coco glucoside. The bad thing about decyl, it makes the product thinner. This combination should be tear-free
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    thanks @ngarayeva001 i will try
  • Hi. I use 6% CAPB ( 35% extract)and 3%decyl. But the smell is not nice. 
  • I actually think that 70% will work. Try to get both decyl glucoside and coco glucoside. The bad thing about decyl, it makes the product thinner. This combination should be tear-free
    May I ask how did you thicken it?
    I tried HEC for this formulation and it didn't work
    http://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/5257/hec-thick-layer-separating#latest
  • @Gunther, the only way I found to thicken this formula was xantham. Crothix doesn’t work for such formulas. I tried PEG-7 glyceryl cocoate but didn’t notice much difference. So, I use it in a foaming bottle. 
  • @Gunther, the only way I found to thicken this formula was xantham. Crothix doesn’t work for such formulas. I tried PEG-7 glyceryl cocoate but didn’t notice much difference. So, I use it in a foaming bottle. 
    Have you tried Carbopol?
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    edited December 2018
    No, I haven't. CAPB has electrolytes, and I thought carbopol isn't a good idea. I will try sepimax zen out of curiosity but frankly, I am happy with the foaming bottle. Can you share your experience with carbopol and surfactants?
  • Can you share your experience with carbopol and surfactants?
    I will:  :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :'( :'( :'( :'(  
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Maybe Carbopol Ultrez 20 or 21 tolerates more electrolytes (from CAPB) than regular carbopol does?
  • @Belassi that bad?
  • @sven: Yes. I went through a phase where I was hoping to suspend (eg mica) insoluble items in shampoo. Apart from problems with instability, and price (eg Aqua SF1) there is the simple fact that you can't get the trapped bubbles out of it without some rather expensive vacuum mixing equipment.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
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