Body cream with Aristoflex avc

good evening to everyone.
i formulated a body cream based on Cetearyl alcohol and Cetearyl glucoside at 3% and glyceryl stearate 1,5%. As gelling water phase I have used Aristoflex avc at 0,6%. The cream contains 15% oil phase and 0,2% aloe vera gel and 2,3% fragrance. the result is good and also the stability tests, but after 2 years there is a loss of viscosity. Can fragrance cause it?
thank you very much

Comments

  • 2 years!  lol.  The most likely cause is Entropy. Most formulators are happy with emulsions that last 1 year.
  • My client is very demanding!
    If we indicate a 12 months PAO, we must garantee a good product life even if it' s not simple..
  • I agree with Perry, emulsions are not stable by nature. Some stay stable longer but those tend to be emulsions made with conventional thickeners and emulsifiers (e.i, something made of cetyl/cetearyl alcohol, stearic acid, glyceryl stearate, PEG based emulsifiers but not polymers). Aristoflex is one of the most demanding polymers I have ever formulated with. And I can see electrolytes in your formula. Aristoflex doesn’t tolerate aloe in any amount. Another potential reasons, HLB was calculated wrong, and as you noticed yourself too much of fragrance.
  • Not even very small amount of aloe? I have already formulated PEG free emulsions in the past with Aristoflex Avc and Aloe but I haven' t noticed variations.
    Theregore this lods of viscosity can be considered normal?
  • Again my observation is that creams that stay together for several years are made of conventional ingredients not polymers. Aristoflex creates pseudoumulsions. It’s not stable by nature. Same about Sepinov and all other similar emulsifiers. 
  • thanks for your advice. for a few years I'm formulating without the traditional ingredients (peg, parabens, ethoxylates, silicones) and I'm trying to better understand stability and long-term behavior. can use xanthan gum increasing quantity of emulsifier and stabilizer (removing then aristoflex avc) can be useful in terms of stability?
  • You don’t use silicones but polymers are ok?
  • customer admits polymers but does not want silicones
  • I am very sorry you are so restricted by this chemophobia
  • thanks. for some years I use aloe gel in emulsions where there are both traditional emulsifiers and polymers (in my case Aristoflex avc) and I have not had any problems.
    lately, however, in some prototypes I have seen some drops in system viscosity and I am trying to analyze the causes. These viscosity drops occur, however, after long storages.
  • You used small amount of aloe. If you try to add more you will see drop of viscocity right away.
  • By the way, don’t use sodium PCA and sodium lactate with polymers either. For the same reason.
  • So do you think the viscosity variations are seen immediately?
  • You won’t reach a desired viscosity if formula contains electrolytes. You can try it yourself. Make an aqueous gel with aristoflex and add aloe (or sodium pca). You will see an immediate drop of viscosity. 
  • In the past I realized an Aloe vera dermogel and I use mix of xanthan gum and sclerotium gum to reach a desidere viscosity because Aristoflex Avc didn't thicken the system.i agree with you.I had the same.experience.
    But when I realized face cream with emulsifier and consistency factors ( and Aristoflex Avc to stabilize the system)and with Aloe vera gel I reached desired viscosity.

    I'm making samples to see if the system remains stable over time
  • @ngarayeva001
    Small amounts of electrolytes will be tolerated oftentimes, also depending on the % of polymer you use of course. I nearly always use a chelating agent (diNa EDTA or Na phytate) and I've never noticed viscosity drops due to this.

    @Lisa18
    You can also test electrolyte tolerance by adding kitchen salt (NaCl, KCl), it's the cheapest way.
  • Thanks @ doreen.
    I also always use  chelating agent to help stability. What % of polymer do you consider?
  • @Lisa18
    What I meant with the chelating agents was that these are also electrolytes (regarding viscosity drops due to electrolyte sensitive polymers).
    I always use them according to the hurdle technique to enhance the preservative system.

    The % of polymer depends on what polymer you use (does it have emulsifying properties like AVC, Pemulen and do you use other emulsifiers with it, electrolyte sensitivity etc etc) and all of the other ingredients and the % of those.
    The recommended % is nearly always mentioned in the (technical) data sheets of the manufacturer.
  • @Doreen, I use tetrasodium EDTA with Aristoflex, but it’s .2% max. Regarding aloe, maybe it’s my experience but it destroys texture of any polymer. 
    @Lisa18, if you use Aristoflex as the only emulsifier its from 1.5 to 2% depending on desired viscosity. I usually use 0.5-0.75 because I add other emulsifiers and fatty acids.
  • Have a look at these formulation tips.
  • Thank you very much.very interesting!
  • Formulation that lost viscosity contains 1% euxyl pe 9010 as preservative system.koko test is passed. Ethylhexylglycerin can influence viscosity after a long time of storage?
  • @ngarayeva001
    That's annoying! I never use aloe so I have zero experience with it. Lately I've had my first troubles with allantoin and I've been working with it for years. Now I've seen for myself how allantoin looks recrystallized. :/ Bummer.
  • edited November 2018
    @Doreen, I mostly use aloe in products like forming face wash or micellar water. Frankly I am not even persuaded it does anything for skin. As per my observation all these "natural goodness" like honey powder, plant extracts, oatsilk can be difficult to work with. Regarding allantoin, I didn't find my wa around it.
  • @ngarayeva001
    True, and hard to preserve properly.
    Today I will be making an anhydrous foot balm and disperse allantoin into it. My first time using it in an anhydrous formula! :)
  • @Doreen, let me know how it goes :)

  • edited November 2018
    @ngarayeva001
    I wanted a whipped, mousse like texture and had to put it in the freezer a couple of times for a short while, so I was afraid what the allantoin would do as it doesn't seem to like temperature changes much.
    Right now (about 5 hours later at room temperature) I still don't feel/see any shard like crystals, hopefully it will stay that way!

    It has become a lovely, pink coloured mousse, not grainy or anything.

    60% shea butter (refined)
    10% aby butter (abysinnian oil, hydrogenated vegetable oil)
    0.1% BHT
    0.1% propyl paraben
    jojoba oil ad 100

    1% allantoin
    1.5% cyclopentasiloxane
    0.2% fragrance
    Gromwell Root CO2 extract (Simmondsia Chinensis Seed Oil (and) Lithospermum Erythrorhizon Root Extract) q.s. 

    The extract was for the pink colouration. Gromwell root gives an intense deep red colour, so I only needed a needlepoint, a tiny speck for a light pink colour (it is even dilluted >50% with jojoba oil, and still so very concentrated!)
    (It gives intense red when pH is acidic and turns blue when basic, and when there's no pH like here, it remains intense red.)
  • edited November 2018
    @Lisa18
    I just answered straight away without remembering this is your post and I'm way off topic. My apologies.

    I have the idea that Euxyl PE 9010 can have influence on viscosity, I think because of the phenoxyethanol, but I might be mistaken. I've had some viscosity issues when using this preservative too. The difference is my viscosity change was quick and yours after 2 years. I agree with Perry, 2 years is a long time!
  • thanks for your comments. they are always welcome
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