dish wash liquid color changes with low temperature

hi all 

i have dish wash liquid .it work properly but it can change its color when the temperature become -3 or onward its color change like malik or become in-transparent   .it contain the following ingredient.give some suggestion for color transparent and  for long preservative life.

838 gm Water

sulphonic acid 85 gm 

Lsles 20gm

caustic soda 11.30

27 gm CDEA

1 gm EDTAu

cocobutane 10gm

urea 5gm

DEA 1gm

Any piece of advice, suggestion or hint

Thanks

Comments

  • What's cocobutane and why is it there?
    Why urea?

    What's DEA? The Drug Enforcement Agency?
  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    Haroon your ingredients are way off the chart. LABSA is 10%, SLES is 8-12, NaOH pure is 1-2% (depending on final pH) If needed, CDEA 1-2%, Cocamidopropylbetaine around 3%. Where is your preservative? Fragrance and finally sodium chloride to adjust the viscosity. 
    NEXT TIME POST YOUR FORMULA IN PERCENTAGE, else no one would give a hoot about what you posted. 

    Good luck
  • Chemist77 thank you for give us valuable suggestion. my ingredients in percentage are given below.but its color change 
     in low temperature and become in-transparent.  

    83.8 gm Water

    sulphonic acid 8.5 gm 

    sles 2gm

    caustic soda 1

    2.7 gm CDEA

    1 gm EDTAu

    cocobutane 1gm

    urea 0.5gm

    DEA 1gm  
  • Could this be cloud point behavior?
  • chemicalmattchemicalmatt Member, Professional Chemist
    That's what I was thinking, Dr. Worthen.  By "color change" haroon, do you mean "milky" ("like malik" as stated) ? At -3C (25F) a lot of formulations will cloud.  
  • DrAndrewWorthen ,yes like cloud behavior in low temperature.
  • chemicalmatt.yes you said correctly,color change like milky in low temp...
  • BILOBILO Member
    edited September 2018
    Good day to you.

    Your LABSA percentage is 8.5% but the NAOH (caustic soda 50) percentage is just 1.13%....so your Sulphonic Acid (LABSA) is not neutralized fully, as the caustic soda percentage is low....leading to an acidic mixture where your dye (or colourant) can't handle very low pH ( 3 to 4 pH acid).

    So i suggest you increase the NaOH percentage to 2.26% that is 22.6 g in your 1 litre dishwash....reduce some water to balance up the percentages.

    good luck and let me know if it solves the problem.
  • BILO ; thanks for your valuable replay,it have Ph is 6, but i do not understand about Sulphonic Acid (LABSA)  is neutralized fully.how we know about its neutralization? 
  • NaOH (strong alkaline) is used to neutralize the acidity of LABSA....after mixing LABSA and NaOH (caustic soda) measure the pH it shoul be neutral (around 7)...

    Now later when you add the other ingredients the pH will change again....adjust your pH at the end of the mixing process....if it is alkaline (pH above 7) then add citric acid to bring pH down to 7....if it is acidic (pH beloe 7) then add moderate amount of NaOH.
    Try it.
  • BILO;dear plz suggest step by step procedure mixing ingredient?
  • water, formalin, EDTA, LABSA, NaOH, SLES, CDE, UREA, BETAINE, COLOUR, SCENT and SALT....and you are done. 
  • Formalin is a banned substance and a known carcinogen
    a sure way to get yourself sued.
    Switch to another preservative.
  • Gunther ;suggest the name of other good preservative?
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
  • Thank you Perry;how much % DMDM Hydantoin is required for dish wash liquid?

  • @haroon if it keeps on clouding, you may wish to switch to Potassium hydroxide instead of Sodium hydroxide.
    The former makes more soluble sulfonates.

    http://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/4804/should-i-dilute-sulfonic-acid-before-neutralizing-it-with-sodium-hydroxide
  • cloudy point is high i think you used too much sodium salt. you can adjust % sles to improve viscosity or add HPMC as a thickener  agent
  • thanks khoikhoa
    HPMC means?
    now the problams is that when temperture is become -ve then it cloud,after increasing temperture it slightly start clearance.  
  • haroon said:
    thanks khoikhoa
    HPMC means?
    now the problams is that when temperture is become -ve then it cloud,after increasing temperture it slightly start clearance.  
    That means solubility decreases, thus becoming cloudy, as temperature drops.

    IMHO The first step is to replace Sodium Hydroxide with Potassium hydroxide to neutralize sulfonic acid
    as Potassium salts are more soluble, thus less likely to cloud.
  • ok Gunther,
    we will be trying for covering problems, and we will
     follow your valuable suggestions.
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