Face wash design

I'm thinking of designing a coffee face wash. Our coffee shampoo has been so successful despite a price of $8 (400mL) that I wonder if I can continue with a coffee line.
What I need to know is, what do people want? A creamy product that foams / has low foam? A pearled liquid product?
Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.

Comments

  • edited June 10
    While only a marketing study can tell what people really want, I'd give it a try.

    I believe they'd like a mild (non irritating) product with creamy foam.
    High CAPB levels come to mind
    This product sheet shows that CAPB sharply lowers irritancy until it becomes 80-90% pf the total surfactant mix.
    https://glenncorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/DS_TEGO_Betain_F_50_e.pdf

    For a home/office bound bottle, I believe they'd like a foamer bottle. But it needs to be water-thin.
    http://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/4338/any-ideas-for-making-liquid-soap-really-water-thin-so-its-suitable-for-foamer-bottles

    You can also sell them in portable, small flip-top or push-top bottles (not foaming).

    Pearled + coffee brown looks great to me.


    I'm curious about the coffee shampoo tech issues:

    1 Did you use distilled water to brew its coffee?
    2 Did coffee reduce the salt amount needed to thicken it?
    3 Does shampoo smell like coffee? If so, then I guess no other fragrances are needed or wanted, do they?
    4 Any incompatibilities from coffee?
    5 Did coffee lower shampoo pH by itself?
  • 1 Did you use distilled water to brew its coffee?
     - No, I use Bonafont which is a natural spring water but very low minerals (<150mG Na/Kg)
    2 Did coffee reduce the salt amount needed to thicken it?
     - I use CAPB to thicken, which of course has quite a lot of salt. The amount of CAPB required is very similar to the other (non-coffee) shampoos so it would appear that the coffee does not have much effect on salt thickening. 
    3 Does shampoo smell like coffee? If so, then I guess no other fragrances are needed or wanted, do they?
     - Yes it does, and the aroma does not noticeably decrease even toward the end of the bottle. No other fragrance is necessary.
    4 Any incompatibilities from coffee?
     - None noted so far.
    5 Did coffee lower shampoo pH by itself?
     - Percolated coffee does appear to be slightly acidic. I reduced the percentage of citric acid slightly to compensate. It's not a problem.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • Maybe I can design a concentrated form that could be in a small squeeze bottle convenient for a handbag. Not quite sure where to start. Design it as a regular face shampoo and take out most of the water (tempting) or begin from scratch. good grief the viscosity testing (laughing) Hmmm... water dispersible silicone, mumble mumble, PEG7GC, glycerine, mumble mumble...what kind of surfactant, maybe Plantaren LGC... got to be zero eye irritation.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • IMO concentrated washes can lead to problems customers can blame the product instead of their faulty dilution. Did coffee reduce foaming, at least a bit?
  • Did coffee reduce foaming, at least a bit?
     - No effect on foam. 
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • edited June 12
    I just asked my husband what he would like for a facial wash as he works outdoors and he likes to wash his face in the shower. He said not too foamy, and the coffee size like sand. Just enough so you think it is doing something? and also nice and soothing because he shaves before hand. He also said that he cant find any for men?? Hope this helps I think you could do a body exfoliate and go the whole hog! Hope this helps
    Dr. Catherine Pratt
    (B.Sc with HONS I , Ph.D Analytical/Organic Chem and Microbiology), Cosmetic Chemistry IPCS)
  • My intent wasn't to make an exfoliating product but it would be possible to use the spent coffee grounds for that purpose. The only problem is that finely ground coffee clogs the percolator filter so I would have to come up with an alternative prep method... not to mention it would be a suspension system. Thanks for the info!
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • edited June 12
    A simple, yet effective suggested recipe:

    A low-sulfate, about 4-5% total (SLS+SLES)

     4-5% active CAPB, equal amount to total sulfates.
    It feels really mild, and a bit conditioning to the skin, without leaving an oily or greasy residue (I'm biased against PEG-7 Glyceryl cocoate, alkanolamides (Cocamide, Lauramide, Oleamide), or Glyceryl oleate)
    High CAPB seems to leave a smooth, almost talc-like feeling.

    Some other non-thickening surfactant to provide some extra foaming. I see you avoid glucosides, but IMO they ain't that bad, especially when combined with low-sulfate, high CAPB.
  • Thanks, I will try that. It's going to be really important to get zero eye irritation. So annoying that I can't use spirulina (I found that I couldn't keep it stable long enough). I will try using Dehyton AB-30 instead of regular CAPB, for its extra conditioning properties.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • I'll make it with the APB, so actual percents will be 7.5% Plantaren APB and 17% Dehyton AB-30. Have to review the extracts in stock . . . for a man's version I think I'll add Tepex and Calendula. Black Drak or Uomo Blue for fragrance.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • Did you use coffee in any leave-on products?
    Did it (temporarily) stain the skin or hair?

    I thought customers liked the coffee smell as is.
  • Actually I forgot about the fragrance! Yes, not required.
    I have not used it in a leave-on product because I think it would stain. The shampoo doesn't.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • I think a creamy product, more like a shaving cream kind of foam, tight and tiny bubbles is more suited for a men's product. Perhaps you could use TEA soaps. 
  • I can easily duplicate shaving cream type foam with synthetics. Soap is undesirable because the high pH degrades the organic ingredients.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • Oh and years ago I made him a perfume with the theme of patchouli, since we are having a 70's revival at the moment maybe you go that way with the fragrance just sayin.
    Dr. Catherine Pratt
    (B.Sc with HONS I , Ph.D Analytical/Organic Chem and Microbiology), Cosmetic Chemistry IPCS)
  • edited June 14
    I think I'll try this today or tomorrow. First trial formula:
    Plantaren APB 7.5%
    Dehyton AB-30 17%
    Lamesoft PO-65 2%
    Calendula extract 1%
    PQ7 1%
    benzoate 0.4%
    citric acid 0.1%
    percolator organic coffee 71%
       .. total a/s = 11%
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • Not a lot of foam. Initially almost no foam, but nice sensorials. Foam builds as a creamy type, no medium or large bubbles. I suppose this is the PQ7 causing that?
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • @Belassi wish you could get hold of the Dow polymers,  they are phenomenal even @0.05% in such applications. With and without gives a clear indication of apple and oranges. 
  • edited June 15
    Dow polymers, eh? I will try. Which one, in particular, would you recommend? For experiments I won't need much, does anyone know if any of the repackagers supply it?

    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • Polyox WSR is the brand name, I am using Polyox WSR 301 and the slip it gives to the formulation is unmatchable. But that’s me, every technician has a different perspective for such enhancements. By the way it’s called PEG-90M if that strikes something very familiar.
  • This test formula separated overnight into a fluffy mess. The Merquat 550 must be the cause. (polyquaternium 7) - Supposed to be compatible with anionic surfactants but failed completely in this formula. 
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • What % PolyOx is needed, typically? I can get 90g shipped from Teachers Supply at a total cost of $32.50
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • edited June 15
    I have seen huge improvement @0.05%, you can request lowest MW variant as well which is Polyox WSR 205 aka PEG 45M. 
    I use Polyox WSR 301 and generally make a stock solution of 1% concentration. 
    PS: The slip properties are phenomenal and most shaving products has PEG 90M if you have noticed in the LOIs of many shaving products.
  • Great, thank you.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • edited June 16
    Did you find rinse-off coffee products leaving a slightly sticky afterfeel?
    I tried briefly rinsing my hands with unsweetened coffee, as you would with a hand wash, as slight tackiness was felt.

    Where can you buy small quantities of suitable Polyox? Even makingcosmerics sells it by the bucket
    https://www.makingcosmetics.com/PEG-90m_p_848.html
  • @Gunther can't you request a sample from a distributor 
  • edited June 16
    Does cold brew coffee has any better smell?

    While higher temperatures improve solubility,
    heat may degrade or evaporate some labile coffee chemicals
    and they may precipitate out of solution when it cools off to room temperature.

    Connoisseurs say you must wait at least 24 hours for a good cold brew coffee.
    I think you can add some preservative to the water, and let it sit for several days.
    I wonder if adding some surfactants to the water, yields a better coffee extraction.


     @Chemist77 unfortunately the Dow local distributor here mostly sells agricultural chemicals.
  • @Chemist77 - Dow here won't talk to me because I can't order the large minimum quantity they require. Teacher's Supply in the USA has it.
    @Gunther - I hadn't thought of that and yes, it is an interesting idea. I will try it. Since it is not for internal use I see no reason not to add a surfactant.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • @Belassi would you mind posting the link for Teacher's supply?
    I couldn't find it there. Search bar didn't help either.
  • https://www.teachersource.com/ Teacher's Source, sorry to have wasted your time.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • @Belassi Univar??  
  • Univar has big MOQs
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • wow sampling for you is a mammoth task then.
  • I tried cold brewing coffee 
    230 ml deionized water
    150 mg SLS powder
    mixture of finely and coarse ground coffee
    and it gave a distinct reddish, brick like color.
    The smell was nothing to write home about, but neither did hot brewing for that particular ground coffee.
    I'll try again with a more expensive, aromatic one, to see if it's any better.


    Interesting study on coffee oils:

    Topical use and systemic action of green and roasted coffee oils and ground oils in a cutaneous incision model in rats (Rattus norvegicus albinus)

    Abstract
    Introduction
    Wounds are a common health problem. Coffee is widely consumed and its oil contains essential fatty acids. We evaluated the local (skin) and systemic effects associated with the topical use of coffee oils in rats.

    Methods
    Punch skin wounds (6 mm) incisions were generated on the backs of 75 rats. Saline (SS), mineral oil (MO), green coffee oil (GCO), roasted coffee oil (RCO), green coffee ground oil (GCGO) or roasted coffee ground oil (RCGO) were topically applied to the wounds. Healing was evaluated by visual and histological/morphometric optical microscopy examination; second harmonics generation (SHG) microscopy, wound tissue q-PCR (values in fold-change) and blood serum (ELISA, values in pg/mL).

    Results
    RCO treated animals presented faster wound healing (0.986 vs. 0.422), higher mRNA expression of IGF-1 (2.78 vs. 1.00, p = 0.01), IL-6 (10.72 vs. 1.00, p = 0.001) and IL-23 (4.10 vs. 1.2, p = 0.05) in early stages of wound healing; higher IL-12 (3.32 vs. 1.00, p = 0.05) in the later stages; and lower serum levels of IFN-γ (11.97 vs. 196.45, p = 0.01). GCO treatment led to higher mRNA expression of IL-6 (day 2: 7.94 vs. 1.00, p = 0.001 and day 4: 6.90 vs. 1.00, p = 0.01) and IL-23 (7.93 vs. 1.20, p = 0.001) in the early stages. The RCO treatment also produced higher serum IFN-α levels throughout the experiment (day 2: 52.53 vs. 21.20; day 4: 46.98 vs.21.56; day 10: 83.61 vs. 25.69, p = 0.05) and lower levels of IL-4 (day 4: 0.9 vs.13.36, p = 0.01), adiponectin (day 10: 8,367.47 vs. 16,526.38, p = 0.001) and IFN-γ (day 4: 43.03 vs.196.45, p = 0.05). The SHG analysis showed a higher collagen density in the RCO and GCO treatments (p = 0.05).

    Conclusion
    Topical treatment with coffee oils led to systemic actions and faster wound healing in rats. Further studies should be performed are necessary to assess the safety of topical vegetal oil use for skin lesions.
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0188779
  • I use organic coffee, it smells great.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • edited June 19
    No problem @Belassi
    In fact I'm thankful to you for posting them. Teachersource looks great
    Please keep us posted on how their Polyox works in personal care products.
    Right now I'm still surfing their site for some projects for my daughter's science fair (and some for me).

  •  :) 
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
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