Truly 24 hour lip balm possible to formulate? Let's invent one in this thread :)

From my research there aren't really any lip balms that last 24 hours even though some might say so. Realistically reapplication every 3rd hour or so is the best I've seen under dry conditions.

This is a personal issue of mine, I have dry lips in winter (low humidity) and I don't want to reapply lip balm every 2 hours.

It seems like waxes alone wouldn't do the trick, you'd need an occlusive that adhered to the lips a bit like glue to stay on through meals etc. Maybe there are some silicone waxes that could get you part of the way there combined with some glue like substance (what do they use in peel off masks?).

Another or complimentary approach would be to use some sort of long lasting humectant or other kind of moisturizing agent (e.g. urea), but I don't know of any that would be potent enough on their own.

I think it's fairly obvious that this product would sacrifice some sensory performance for longevity, but it could be a great niche product for people like myself, mountaineers (with SPF added) etc that don't enjoy the lip balm experience.

Can we crowdsource a formula here? I've never formulated a lip balm so I'm afraid I don't know where I'd start.
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  • Of course there isn't because it's unrealistic. People speak, drink and eat during the day.

    In fact it's one of the things I hate most. I also have dry lips and if I don't use some kind of moisturizer I bleed. I use nivea med, but it's so waxy that I can't drink from a glass. I end up cursing, taking it off and using any fast absortion cream.

    Maybe it's because im not used to it, but I bet women have the same problem. 
  • @DAS Can't? drink from a glass  :D sounds like a slight exaggeration.

    Why is it unrealistic? Obviously most if not all brands want products that work for your average joe, so they compromise on longevity in favor of lip feel etc.

    I want a semi permanent lip balm that's not super glue.
  • Not difficult to do but who is going to just post a  formula on this thread?
  • I don't think a formula like this exists, at least I haven't found it, so some potentially useful ingredients would be a good starting point.
  • edited March 4
    Semi permanent super glue ... that would seem to be a good starting point.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • What would be your definition of "lasts 24 hours"?

    I'm sure you could take any old petrolatum based lip balm and find traces of it still on the lips after 24 hours.
  • You are pretty clear in your initial goals for the product. I am not negative, but I think you are going to find a gap between what is available and your proof of concept. My only thought was delivering an active vice a nonpermeable barrier, but what active and the OTC Drug claims may become a barrier as well. Also, toxicity, perceived and actual.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
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  • You are on a roll today. Just need the embedded mp3 of a rimshot.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • @Perry lasts = keeps my lip moist or at least not dry 24 hours.

    So far there's been one suggestion, some sort of semi permanent super glue that's skin compatible.
  • @Zink - as you can imagine this is a complicated question. If it were easier, you would have gotten more serious answers. 

    My starting point would be vaseline. Then maybe a coating of hair spray. If that worked, you may be able to combine them into one formula.
  • Time to figure out what Himalayan Sherpas use if anything. There are some "moutain climber" lip balms that could be a starting point although I doubt any of them last close to 24 .
  • My guess is they use meditation and don't even think about their lips.
  • edited March 9
    What's wrong with reapplying the lipbalm every few hours or so?
    I'm not sure but I don't think there's a huge market for some sticky lipbalm that lasts for a whole day and night. I surely wouldn't buy it and I'm a huge lipbalm/-stick user.
  • Doreen, you are clearly not the target market :smiley:

    Although it shouldn't be sticky, I'm imagining more like a smooth and inert hard silicone wax. Not my field of expertise so I was hoping someone would chime in.
  • edited March 9
    i know this wasn't the question, but if your lips are so dry you must be dehydrated. DRINK WATER. then drink some more. then some more. 

    also: exfoliate your lips to remove dead skin cells that prohibit an emollient from penetrating. you can use sugar to exfoliate, not hard enough to hurt, just remove the flakes, as often as needed. if your lips are covered in tough, dry skin, nothing you apply will help. also, apply coconut oil at night. it is wonderful for dry skin and heals very quickly.

    my point is -- you have an easily treatable condition, but instead of taking easy steps to fix it, you want a magical product that does what you can't be bothered to do. :) 

    also - water hydrates, not oils/butters/etc. these are emollients.
  • Sherpas have lips?
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • I agree with @DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ .  & @zinc, dehydration also contributes to that, not just humidity factor.  ....and I am a bad girl for this but ...Drinking coffee isn't the same as drinking water :wink: ....a sticky lip balm is not the only option for long wear in the category of a balmy texture.  "Lasts all day" is subjective to interpretation, also - based on lifestyle, habits and activities.   ...yet this coating is not an impossibility to create.  As a lip treatment/lip product addict - aka don't just make this, I love wearing it... I actually don't mind re-applying a lip treatment/balm more than once in a day. Good luck with your project.  Here's a great link to read more about lip health. https://www.webmd.com/beauty/why-your-lips-are-chapped#1
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  • if you valued product performance above ethics and regulatory acceptability, a small amount of alkyd resin would most likely do the job
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
  • edited March 13
    Thanks Bill, could a silicone resin work instead? 

    Proposing a formula

    Actives for SPF ~20:
    8% Padimate O, 4.5% Benzophenone-3, 4% Octinoxate 

    37% Isododecane
    10% Petrolatum (not sure it will work with the silicones)
    10% Carnauba wax
    10% Trimethylsiloxysilicate, Polypropyl silsesquioxane
    5% Dimethicone
    5% Dimethicone/vinyl dimethicone crosspolymer
    5% Cyclopentasiloxane
    1% Phenoxyethanol, Potassium Sorbate
    0.5% Tocopheryl Acetate


  • edited March 22
    @Zink I was being facetious

    alkyd resins make paint stick to hard surfaces; they don't even have INCI names, let alone adequate toxicology data to prove that they're safe for human use
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
  • Zink  Alkyd resin technology is the right model, unfortunately as per above, they are used in paint/varnish industry Now translate that model to a cosmetic bio-adhesive which will adhere for 24 hours.You can test bioadhesion as a function of time in the lab: we did it fr the stomach/gastrointestinal  mucosa and helped develop a nice product currently marketed by a major player.
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