dish wash liquid concentrate

Hello friend I need your Assistance on Dish wash Concentrate. I have make Concentrate with following ingredients. I want to mix all ingredients without water and make Concentrate liquid. I do but when I neutralize the labsa it will become very thick paste. I want liquid.  

860 gm Water

94 gm LABSA

12.5 NaOH

27 gm CDEA

1 gm EDTA

2 gm Sodium chloride 

Any piece of advice, suggestion or hint



  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    A hydrotrope might come in handy but that will affect the foam profile. It could be a glycol or Na Cumene Sulfonate or Xylene Sulfonate, try if these work and you end up happy with the foam quality.
  • AvirockAvirock Member
    edited February 2018
    Thankyou for your for your valuable reply.
    But sir I request you could you please explain indetal.
  • when I neutralize the labsa it has become very thick paste. And if I add water in labsa it has also become very thick past is there any way to do same and get less viscuss gel. Thanks
  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    Can you please note down your complete procedure here, will be much better in making any suggestions/recommendations. Also please list diwn your formula in % and not in grams.
  • Thanks for your reply.

    Please get the following information.

    Water 86.3%

    LABSA 9.4 %

    NaOH 1.25%

    CDEA 2.7%

    EDTA .1%

     Sodium chloride .2,%

  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    What is the order of addition, that much shouldn’t make it thick as it is almost a regularly used dosage.
  • ozgirlozgirl Member, PCF student
    Dishwashing concentrates contain water. They just contain less than non-concentrate products.

    Try increasing the concentration of your actives (and reducing the water) and see how concentrated you can go before the viscosity is not acceptable or the product is unstable.

    As Chemist77 mentioned Sodium Xylene Sulfonate can be added to help reduce viscosity in concentrated formulas. Also you could try some ethanol to help reduce the viscosity a little.

  • AvirockAvirock Member
    edited March 2018
    how i mix(neutralize) labsa and NaOH flakes without of help of water. when i mix with NaOH + water it will become thick paste.
  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    While rereading your question I just realized that you are trying to defy chemistry. Once you neutralize it is going to be thick, end of.

  • it means there are no solution of my problem.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    edited September 2018
    @Avirock make it without CDEA or with lower quantity will decrease the viscosity of your product.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    edited September 2018
    @Avirock i will try it without CDEA and with adding NaCl and i will tell you what it gives.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    edited September 2018
    @Avirock actually i did the experience with Labsa 10%, NaOh 1,2 % without CDEA even with using different quntity of slat it dosen't lead to good viscosity it stays too near to water viscosity even i see that with using perfume the bad smell of Labsa at that level 10% still exist and finally with that formula some collant effect found and it is bad thing.
    So as conclusion making dish wash liquid with only LABSA and NaOh is according to my experience is very bad idea.
    I did some correction for my formula by reducing LABSA % by diluating, adding SLS and CAPB so i obtained acceptable product with good foam, acceptable odor and not  very low viscosity.
  • Most dishwash liquids use SLES, not SLS
    but you can always try with the latter to see if foam gets better.

    Be aware that SLS is more skin irritating than SLES (albeit Sodium sulfonate is irritating too)
    and if SLS comes in fine powder form, it can irritate your lungs.

    CAPB was a bit pricey for an economy product
    so I just added more LABSA (+NaOH) and SLES to get more foam.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    edited September 2018
    Yes @Gunther i made also a dish wash liquid with only SLS and neutralised Labsa and the quality is too near with product wich contains CAPB . appriciate your reaction 
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