Help - I am struggling to find organic aspen and willow bark extracts!

Hi all, I would really appreciate if anyone can point me in the right direction. I have looked online for ORGANIC aspen and willow bark extracts, but haven't been able to find any so far. Thanking you in advance for any suggestions/recommendations.

Comments

  • @Belassi
    Didn't you use willow bark extract? 
  • No, not me! A willow bark by any other name ... is salicylic acid!
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • Actiphyte® of Willow Bark
    • INCI Name: Salix Alba (Willow) Bark Extract
    Active Organics
  • I was thinking myself changing salicylic acid with Salix alba/nigra extract. As far as I remember there were three types based on the natural salicylic acid concentration, 10%, 20% and 50% 

    Here are some links you may find useful 
    http://activeconceptsllc.com/products/botanical-extracts/
    http://activeconceptsllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/10229-ABS-White-Willow-Bark-Extract-Powder-NewTechnical-Data-Sheet-v1.pdf
    http://glenncorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Salix-Alba-Willow-Extracts.pdf
  • edited February 20
    Just keep in mind that the extracts are firstly not approved under the OTC monographs for acne. Say acne and the FDA may send you a letter. Look at past enforcement notices, it has happened exactly as I describe. Also, keep in mind that the "natural" alternatives generally contain "salicins" rather than salicylates and the jury is still out on the side by side efficacy.

    If you want an effective product ad you feel the call of the "natural" siren, use Salicylic acid and tell the marketing story of the botanical relationship. Remember that it is rightfully an OTC and there are regulatory responsibilities therein.

    I have been formulating in this growing "natural" (if you know me, you know the reason for the air quotes) market since 2003 when it was first lucrative for me. In those 15 years, the market has matured. Simply compromising a product in regards to performance, safety or cost in order to meet some outdated one-dimensional market talking point is no longer an option. In this market, a successful product is like a three-legged stool with one leg marketing story (natural et al.), price and performance. A 2003 stool could be all one leg like a single leg camping stool. No longer. The market is accepting less and less "wobble" each year.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1319610310000578

    From the author of the article;

    Many companies turn to willow bark extract to fill the beta hydroxy acid role.  However, willow bark is a source of a lot of confusion in this regard.

    The confusion happens because willow bark extract contains anti-inflammatory salicin, a type of salicylate.  When orally ingested, salicin is converted by the digestive process into salicylic acid.  In a laboratory setting, salicin can be chemically oxidized to yield salicylic acid.  (Fun Fact: Salicylic acid is the precursor to aspirin.)

    In other words, willow bark is a SOURCE of salicylates (specifically, salicin), which may then be chemically converted into salicylic acid, but is NOT salicylic acid itself.  Accordingly, despite the statements of many cosmetic companies and ingredient producers, white willow bark extract is not a true salicylic acid substitute.  Rather, it is a "related substance," at most ideal for reducing inflammation and associated redness, with the bonus of possibly having an antimicrobial effect, but it is not going to be the oil-seeking, oil-decreasing, acne-busting superstar that is salicylic acid.


    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • Thanks for the information @Microformulation ;

    I understand what you mean and I will have to be careful about how I use it. It's difficult to find 'natural' preservatives that have not gone through a lot of process. I appreciate your input, so thanks!
  • edited February 21
    @healthorganic 1, Never use "natural" again as if it has a definition. I am not being snarky, but it is a marketing term with the scientific credibility of "now with twice the chocolate goodness." It is more of a barrier than a tool and you should strive to remove it from your vocabulary. Either use a standard or lacking that you a defined term you make front and center such as "XYZ Cosmetics avoids {her insert all the likely still safe materials that have been rendered unsellable in some sectors} AND uses naturally occurring plant-based materials (might need to add minerals if color cosmetics and sunscreens) minimally processed to make safe and effective products." Avoid toxic. Everything is toxic and it is dose related.

    What is minimally processed? Generally, emulsions, where you throw in leaves, sticks, bark, and berries, are poorly received. Materials need to be processed to be usable but should be minimally, if at all changed. For a more extensive but technical discussion of approved processes, research this under the COSMOS standard documents. They do a great job defining that.

    This accomplishes many things. Firstly the uncertainty of "can I use this in the Formula" is gone, especially if you work with a team. Aso, as a Scientist it grants you credibility and legitimacy. Otherwise, you may as well sell ground up Rhino penis for male potency.

    Now that we have done that, let's see how it solved your problem. "It's difficult to find 'natural' preservatives that have not gone through a lot of processes." Why no, it is not hard to find plant-based minimally processed preservatives. They come up with many and frequently. I fully expect to be told about many new ones at Suppliers Day.

    Lastly, if using a new and less proven 'naturally derived" preservative, test, test, and test.

    2. "I will have to be careful about how I use it." Yes because it hasn't been shown to work nor is it approved. Refer back to rhino penis. Naturally derived doesn't trump effective. You need to be a Scientist first and a Marketer last.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • Thanks for your message @Microformulation I understand your point, but you suggested I don't use the term 'nature' when you use it in your own website when describing the kind of services you offer. Are there unwritten rules on who can use the term??
    • Provide Natural and Organic Product Formulations adhering to both the Natural Products Association or USDA Standards. Can direct you to a Natural Products Manufacturer who can support small batch runs.
  • edited February 21
    "adhering to both the Natural Products Association or USDA Standards."

    I qualify the term with third party certifications.

    third line of my post;

    "Either use a standard or"
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • Lastly, I have seen lines try to use these products, ignore the salicin/salicylate gap, and not "wink wink" say a word about acne.

    If the seller expects a consumer to get "wink, wink, acne", the FDA Inspector surely will as well. They are not the enemy and pretty sharp as government employees go.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • edited February 21
    Now Clive @Belassi may weigh-in, but as he will tell you, he lives in the land of Mexico where the FDA fears to tread! My regulatory experience is with the US Market. 
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • @Microformulation ;Got it! Now i understand what you mean. Thanks for the heads up. Those are great tips and I will definitely have to stay on the right side of things. Lucky @Belassi I am in Europe! 
  • edited May 4
    @Microformulation ;

    > The confusion happens because willow bark extract contains anti-inflammatory salicin, a type of salicylate.  When orally ingested, salicin is converted by the digestive process into salicylic acid.  In a laboratory setting, salicin can be chemically oxidized to yield salicylic acid.  (Fun Fact: Salicylic acid is the precursor to aspirin.)

    a fair amount of "botanical" ingredients, are being included and promoted as cosmetically active, when they are in fact, only bioactive if ingested.  not to put to fine a point, on his point.

    > If the seller expects a consumer to get "wink, wink, acne", the FDA Inspector surely will as well. They are not the enemy and pretty sharp as government employees go.

    In the US, they have a frightening amount of power (for a level of incompetence that borders on criminal).  Its like the Pope.  If they say the Sun rises in the West; it rises, in the West.

    > Now Clive @Belassi may weigh-in, but as he will tell you, he lives in the land of Mexico where the FDA fears to tread!

    Do tell.  Is this from practical experience (as in you've run a lab in Mexico)?  Or just the pharma rebasing from PR leads to too many plants to inspect?

    @belassi - hows the FDA "presence" down in your neck of the woods?

  • edited May 4
    @belassi - hows the FDA "presence" down in your neck of the woods?

    Well, if you are going to produce a finished product, you have to get inspected by the health department. Claims, though - people claim ridiculous things and just plain wrong. Magnetic water, my personal fave is peyote balm, kind of like your typical menthol vaseline but with peyote. Perhaps 0.0001% since the plant is a protected species how can that be claimed? 
    I would say the main difference is that the rigid FDA rules about what is and isn't allowed in a drug rather than cosmetic don't apply. For instance we market an anti-acne gel that has no SA at all but uses a combination of other actives. It wouldn't be viable in the USA.

    This is a very old message by the way.

    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • > Well, if you are going to produce a finished product, you have to get inspected by the health department.

    I looked briefly at opening up a plant in Mexico.  This is why I asked ;)

    > This is a very old message by the way.

    Doesn't show up with the warning ;) 

    And I reopened it to explicitly hilight the excellent point Microformulation made with respect to the botanical activity not necessarily being cosmetic, rather than "ingested".  Rosehips is another example (similar to willowbark), as I recall.
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