Best pH for skin and eye makeup cleanser

Can someone tell me what the best pH would be for a gel-based facial cleanser?  If it's gentle on the skin (pH 4.5-5.5) it stings the eyes.  Is it ok to keep the pH at 7 to be gentle on eyes?  

We don't want to add oils, so what are some ingredients we could incorporate to make it more skin softening at the higher pH.  Glycerin? 
Thank you!

Comments

  • Yes finish at Ph 7 which will make it mild to both skin and eyes:add either or both of glycerin and/or Hydrolized oat protein.If sting persists, you are using too aggressive a surfactant system and if so add incremental amounts of polysorbate 20 or if you can get it Poe 80 sorbitan monolaurate.
  • Thanks "DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ" for the reply - that's what I needed to know.  Appreciated! 
    For surfactant- I was using BASF Platapon (Sodium Lauryl Glucose Carboxylate (and) Sodium Lauryl Glucoside) as well as an organic castile soap base.  
  • Get rid of the soap.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • Ditto--soap is a stinger which cannot (at least to my knowledge) be mitigated.
  • Thank you @Belassi and @DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ - I didn't realize that!  
    I can definitely eliminate the Castile Soap. 
  • Try adding sodium cocoamphoacetate and CAPB to replace the soap.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • I passed by a Make Up Removing Facial Cleanser formula ending with pH: 5 - 5.75 considering that pH of the Skin 5.5 https://www.ulprospector.com/documents/1183264.pdf?bs=2626&b=238583&st=1&r=na&ind=personalcare But I think that the Conc. of the first ingredient, in this hyperlinked formula, is significantly high. For me I prefer adding the Anionic and Amphoteric Surfactants separately to control the concentration of each surfactants. Also, Sodium Lauroamphoacetate has up to 7.5% sodium Chloride in addition to 3% Sodium Chloride added separately in the formula ending to 10.5% Sodium Chloride in the whole formula which may cause irritating in the eye area after drying the cleanser if this area hasn't been washed completely by water to remove all the dried Sodium Chloride. I may try adding Anionic Surfactant: Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate 10% and Amphoteric Surfactant: Cocamidopropyl Betaine 3% instead of Sodium Lauroamphoacetate. I don't think Facial Cleanser must be thick, so, I don't need to to add any Sodium Chloride. If it has to be thick i may add up to 2% Sodium Chloride for the Whole Formula. Also, some preservatives can cause Skin irritation, I may add benzalkonium (BAK) and sodium chlorite. which is used to preserve eye drops: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-common-types-of-preservatives-in-eye-drops.htm I may have to try all that in a small lab batch to see if it works if I'm asked to formulate a product of this kind.
  • I passed by a Make Up Removing Facial Cleanser formula ending with pH: 5 - 5.75 considering that pH of the Skin 5.5 https://www.ulprospector.com/documents/1183264.pdf?bs=2626&b=238583&st=1&r=na&ind=personalcare But I think that the Conc. of the first ingredient, in this hyperlinked formula, is significantly high. For me I prefer adding the Anionic and Amphoteric Surfactants separately to control the concentration of each surfactants. Also, Sodium Lauroamphoacetate has up to 7.5% sodium Chloride in addition to 3% Sodium Chloride added separately in the formula ending to 10.5% Sodium Chloride in the whole formula which may cause irritating in the eye area after drying the cleanser if this area hasn't been washed completely by water to remove all the dried Sodium Chloride. I may try adding Anionic Surfactant: Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate 10% and Amphoteric Surfactant: Cocamidopropyl Betaine 3% instead of Sodium Lauroamphoacetate. I don't think Facial Cleanser must be thick, so, I don't need to to add any Sodium Chloride. If it has to be thick i may add up to 2% Sodium Chloride for the Whole Formula. Also, some preservatives can cause Skin irritation, I may add benzalkonium (BAK) and sodium chlorite. which is used to preserve eye drops: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-common-types-of-preservatives-in-eye-drops.htm I may have to try all that in a small lab batch to see if it works if I'm asked to formulate a product of this kind.
  • Anionic Surfactant Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate 10% and Amphoteric Surfactant: Cocamidopropyl Betaine 3% are just my initial estimate for the first prototype.  If you need more foam and/or Viscosity, you may increase the concentration of each surfactants in the second Prototype.
  • Benzalkonium chloride as a preservative in the presence of anionic?. That's a big no.
  • I just picked that preservative because of the sensitivity of the area it will be applied on (around the eye) as long as it can be trusted in the eye drops (Re: The Hyperlink).  My Concern is basically is not to cause inflammation or irritation in that area.  Usually with Isethionate formulas (Anionic Surfactant), I observed some Preservative like Euxyl PE 1910 but it include Phenoxyethanol which is identified by the some Natural Standard as a skin irritant in the concentration of 1% or even closer.  Sodium Benzoate and Potassium Sorbate my not be enough by themselves against all pathogenic microorganism.  This area needs a preservative which should be non irritant for the skin and Broad Spectrum as a preservative.  Mild on the skin should be tested "In Vivo". Broad Spectrum should be tested "In Vitro" without these results, I think it is hard to predict the most suitable preservative in this case.
  • There is a Preservative called Ethyl Lauroyl Arginate Hcl, I read that it's approved by one of the International Natural Standard, but, I haven't tried it by myself neither in Vitro nor in Vivo.  In case if someone like to try it, but, it is, still, cationic and has ethanol in it which could be irritant to some skin type

    https://www.ulprospector.com/en/na/PersonalCare/Detail/10739/711382/SPI-Silguard-20?st=1&sl=57232420&crit=a2V5d29yZDpbZVRIWUwgTEFVUk9ZTCBhUkdJTkFURV0=&ss=2&k=eTHYL|LAUROYL|aRGINATE&t=eTHYL+LAUROYL+aRGINATE
  • I'm sorry because the post of Feb 16 is duplicated accidently.  I don't even know how to erase one of them.
  • I need to resolve a confusion happened between two User Names: sturdent54 and JOJO91343.  Perry resolved this confusion, recently.  Student54 comments which were posted on Feb. 16, and Feb 17 were written by me JOJO91343
  • I passed by a patent, published online, which can resolve the issue of using Benzalkonium Chloride in the presence of Anionic Surfactant in the formulation. The patent stated that using any of the Amino Acids: L-Arginine, Lysine, or Histidine in the concentration of 0.5% - 5.0% w/v with Benzalkonium Chloride as a preservative can increase the Efficacy of Benzalkonium Chloride as a Preservative and reduce its concentration use in the formula to 100 ppm only which may not interfere with Anionic ingredient in the formula: https://patents.google.com/patent/US5658948 So, If L-Arginine, Lysine, or Histidine is used in Candace's formula in the concn. of (0.5% - 5%) with only 100 ppm Benzalkonium Chloride, it may increase the efficacy of Benzalkonium Chloride as a preservative in Candace's Formula in the concn. of only 100 ppm, but, again, after adding these two ingredients in these concentrations, Stability Studies should be conducted. In Vivo Studies for Verifying that the formula will not cause Skin Irritation in "Around the eye area" and In Vitro Studies should be conducted to verify that using Benzalkonium Chloride in 100 pm Conc. in this formula has A Broad Spectrum effect.
  • Regarding the Preservatives, you may also try Zemea Propanediol

    https://www.ulprospector.com/en/na/PersonalCare/Detail/2624/79261/Zemea-Propanediol


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