shampoo and conditioner production line

Hay everybody
I am working on setting up a small production line for shampoo and conditioner
I have a formula in mind but this is the first time i will work on an industrial level and unfortunately i have no one to learn form and no place to train
i have a 250 L double jacket mixing tank and a filling machine but i want to know how can i know the operating conditions (mixing speed, mixing time, mixing temperature, etc)
can you please help me what to do or where to look
thanx



Comments

  • Ah, you are asking a very complex thing. You are practically asking for a guide to set up a factory. From my point of view there are two ways of learning. A) work experience B) trial and error.

    No one is going to give that knowledge for free, it takes a lot of time, money and effort to have a working factory. 

    Best advice, read as much as you can and hire an experienced formulator or at least a consultant. You can ask on this forum, there are many talented and experienced chemists that do precisely what you are asking as a job.
  • thanx @DAS
    the factory is ready and in place, and i am required as a chemist to determine the operating conditions.
    will a chemist on this forum or a consultant give me this in your opinion ?
      
  • Of course not. There are far too many operating variables! If you don't know how, then why is it that you've got the job? It's the equivalent of, for instance, me going on some forum for organic chemists, and saying (eg) "Hey guys, I don't know anything about this, but some guys in California want me to build them a machine that extracts THC-alpha-19 isomer. Can you explain everything?"
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • There is so much more to the process that you haven't even considered. It far exceeds temperatures and times. Do you have a cGMP/SOP program in place? What is the state of your QC program? What are your testing protocols? Don't get offended, but this is far more complicated than the lay person believes. I will honestly say that it was a few years in Contract Manufacturing and the exposure to these programs before I would have even considered taking on such a task.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • edited January 6
    @Belassi thanks for your opinion, i know that it won't be easy and i don't want anyone to give specific details to work with and i do know something about it ( i am no expert but not a total brainless)
    i want to work in this area and i have the ability to learn and work and i mentioned i someone can tell me where to look to learn not just give me their knowledge
    @Microformulation thanks for the advice, but if no one will accept to teach me or tell where to learn i will never work on something i want to learn
  • @Taher The textbook answer which is probably not realistic in this case is 1. get some traditional Chemistry education 2. Start at the bottom and 3. Learn all that you can.

    It will take some extra effort to learn independently, but I know some people have done it. Just avoid the one error most people make; "It can't be that hard?" I would doubt that there is a single person in the Industry who doesn't continue to learn on a daily basis. Also, as I said, the fundamentals pay off. You would be surprised how often Chem 101 and Organic Chemistry pops up.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • thanx a lot @Microformulation
    i am working on my PhD in inorganic chemistry and i know it is never easy and i asked here to learn and know what i am missing and what i should do
    you helped a lot @Microformulation @Belassi
    thanx again
  • OK, I have been in your position exactly some years ago. Firstly, you need to work this out for yourself. My approach was as follows:

    (1) Set up the production facility to meet GMP requirements.
    (2) Set up your QC system and testing protocols etc.
    (3) Start working with recipes in small batches to see what works, what doesn't, and test the product results. I started with 6 Kg batches in stainless steel pots.
    (4) Scale up to bigger batches in stainless steel pots to see if your selected recipes are reproducible. Check your testing protocols.
    (5) If all OK, then scale up to your 250 L tank.

    Along the way you will learn a lot, including modifications to your production facility and equipment.

    Another point..... check the marketplace. What is your unique selling point with your recipes? If nothing too unique, then maybe consider contract manufacturing.

    Remember, it can be done.... but requires persistence. Also, if you can have a peek at another production facility, this can be helpful.


    Dr. Mike Thair
    Cofounder & Chief Formulator
    Indochine Natural
  • Thanx @mikethair
    i will keep all that in mind and work on it as you suggested in small steps to reach the desired result
  • Excellent comments!

    I find it helpful to read posts that don’t specifically apply to what I formulate. There is always a tid bit of info I find useful!
  • 250L is not a small production line.
    You have to do scale ups to achieve better results in 250L batch.
    The manufacturer of that line should give you some basic operations so you can have an idea of how all variables work. 
    In any case, you have to do trials, you will not get the best formula at the first try. 
  • @Taher I wish you good luck, I advise you to contact a local supplier in your area who can help you, you can leave your contact I can help you if you are from Algeria.
  • thanx @em88
    thank you @Dino , i am in egypt and this is my email: taheralnajjar@hotmail.com
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