Colloidal oatmeal/avena sativa in skin care.

Hi, 

I would like to add colloidal oatmeal to a skin cream but I don't know how to do it.  I know that I could make a tincture but then my product would contain alcohol which I don't want to do.  Is there a way to add it? There must be because Aveeno uses it.

Thanks. 

Linda

Comments

  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    Buy Oat Oil from a reputable supplier.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • I make hydrolysed oats using oat flour, NaOH and citric acid.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • KloeKloe Member
    edited December 2017
    Hi everyone, hi Belassi, I read the thread where you talked  about how to make your own hydrolyzed oatmeal
    (https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/3228/cream-gets-thin-bodymilk-like#latest)
    and now I´d like to experiment with it, but I have some doubts.
    "Only a very small amount of NaOH is necessary. I don't have my lab results to hand, but as I remember, I used about 5g NaOH for every 100g of powdered oatmeal and left it about 30 min..."
    What is the amount of water that you use to dissolve the NaOH, is it 1:1?
    Also I read it works in handmade soap, can anyone tell me what would be the hydrolyzed oatmeal amount added?
    Thank you very much!

  • No, not 1:1 ... quite the contrary in fact. I can't give you a definitive answer because I have only done this a few times but basically, you need enough water to suspend the powdered oats. So it is in fact a very dilute solution of NaOH, probably something like 5-10%. And that is easily sufficient to break the proteins apart. I need to do more work to find the lowest amount that works (was unable to locate info on the Web) because when you neutralise it, you get sodium citrate, so at 5% solution you will end up with 5% sodium citrate and the rest is hydrolysed oat protein.
    You will see a characteristic colour change and there's a very obvious smell too. However, when you neutralise, the colour will change back to oatmeal and the smell will disappear. You can then incorporate it into shampoos or whatever because it won't settle out like oat flour does.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • In cold process soap it would be pointless to hydrolyse it first, because the soap process is so alkaline that any proteins will be broken up. 
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    If you are in the US there are numerous suppliers of Cosmetic grade Colloidal Oatmeal, JE Edwards is one. If you can get a standardized and commercially produced raw material, it is really a waste of time to make you own.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • Yes, but... is "colloidal" = "hydrolysed"? I don't think so. Isn't it just oat flour?
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • I add colloidal oatmeal straight up to the water phase under very fast prop mixing, I pretty much just sprinkle it in. You have to be very careful while sprinkling as it's very prone to clumping and will thicken your water phase. I only have experience with adding it at marketing levels (0.1% and under) though so if you're adding more I'd be careful.
  • I think I found my answer on how to incorporate it into skin care. 

    Avena Sativa (Oat) kernel flour:
    At the Making Cosmetics website they have this instruction for use: 
    "Sprinkle into cold or hot water and mix well. Typical use level 5-30%"
  • ozgirlozgirl Member, PCF student
    We have used colloidal oatmeal at 1% and use the same procedure as gld010 describes above (water phase/ fast mixing).

    I have only seen it used in cream formulations at up to around 3%.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @lindacupples:

    "Sprinkle into cold or hot water and mix well. Typical use level 5-30%"

    That has to be a typo ... more like 0.5% to 3.0% would be a typical use level.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • If it doesn't work in cold process soap, maybe it will be better at hot  process, when the pH is low, isn't it? Anyway I'm trying it. Thank you for the explanation. Also I'm going to try with the colloidal oatmeal in two ways, a basic skin cream and a hair mask the way the people has explained above. Regards.
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    What function / benefit are trying to get by adding colloidal oatmeal?

    Aveeno adds it as a claims ingredient only. The moisturizing in that product comes from Petrolatum, Mineral Oil and Glycerin.
  • DoreenDoreen Member
    edited December 2017
    You don't want to go higher than 3% or you will have dough as a result. It's ok for a mask, but in a cream you'd better stick to lower levels.
    There are several oat ingredients, the extract of the oat kernel (which should contain avenanthramides), the oil and (colloidal) oatmeal. Like @Belassi mentioned oat can be hydrolized. Hydrolized oat (just as hydrolized wheat) to me has an unacceptable odour that is hard to mask. Oat oil has a distinctive smell.

    I'm curious about the same as @Perry. What is your reason to add it? I like to use it if I have eczemic outbreaks, it works great as an anti-irritant!

    Tip: if you make small batches you can use a (rough surfaced) mortar and pestle. Put the oatmeal in it along with some emulsion (in same quantities). Disperse until homogeneous: no lumps! :-)
  • Success!  Thank you everyone, for your input.  I really appreciate it.  The reason I wanted to add it is for the soothing of skin.  I did use it at 2%, dissolved it in hot water and it was very easy to use. The outcome of the lotion was great. 
  • Great! :+1:
    Just curious, what preservatives did you use?
  • Cst4Ms4Tmps4Cst4Ms4Tmps4 Member
    edited July 21
    @Belassi ;

    How do you actually hydrolyse oats? I mean, have you managed to figured out what you exactly you did that few times?

    How 'dilute' is dilute?

    100g H2O
    5g NaOH
    100g Oats

    Is that correct?

    OR you meant make 5% NaOH solution first, and then fill up a container with 100g Oats, add 5% NaOH solution just enough to cover Oats, add some more 5% NaOH solution so that oats are seen suspended in solution?

    How do I know all those oats are properly hydrolysed and not a bit left un-hydrolysed? Oats are properly hydrolysed when each bit of Oats is blacken/darkened?

    I do not know why the Internet very vast we cannot find how we could easily make or DIY Oat hydrolysate. Weird.
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    You'll know by the smell and the colour. You first grind the oats into fine powder. Then add the powder to the NaOH solution. It will begin the process immediately, you'll smell it. Leave for about 20 minutes, stirring, the smell will go away. Then, you neutralise the result with citric acid (you'll get sodium citrate) or hydrochloric (sodium chloride) and you will see the colour change back from a brown to oatmeal again. It's pretty simple. You will need a preservative of course, if you don't use it immediately.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Cst4Ms4Tmps4Cst4Ms4Tmps4 Member
    edited July 21
    @Belassi

    Wow! Uhmm... There is not really a measurement of how much NaOH is used? This NaOH part is very confusing, actually. 

    I will assume 5% NaOH solution, does not matter how much as long as "put enough Oats" and observe the smell (not sure what odour) and colour (brown) change that occurs immediately.

    AND THEN dilute the needed 'random' amount of the reacted compound with as much water as needed (to making the final product such as lotion, cream, toner, whatnot).

    Finally, neutralise the whole thing (hydrolysed Oats and newly added Water) and observe the colour changes back from brown to Oats' original colour again.

    That is my plan in my head. I neutralise it later/when I need to use the hydrolysate because I think that the alkaline solution could effectively preserve itself. Also, I think by this way I would not be bounded by the 5% salt in my final product (I love Carbomer. You know how ultra sensitive Carbomer is to salts!)

    Oh by the way, do you filter out the Oats? Or the Oats seriously really completely totally "vanishes" during hydrolysis? If this is true then vanishing Oats is the best indicator of readiness, yes?!?!?!??!!
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    You just strain the result. It is so simple I suggest just try it. The smell is very obvious.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • @Belassi

    All right. The amount of NaOH is still a mystery! Haha! Maybe you have already found cost-effective pre-made Oats hydrolysate (or other hydrolysate) that you no longer care to DIY.

    I manage to find very cheap NaOH and POH. I will get either one of them by tomorrow, I hope.

    Grinding my/our own Oats seems to be the best and cheapest, although not the most convenient. Pre-ground (powdered) Oats is very expensive.
  • DoreenDoreen Member
     Pre-ground (powdered) Oats is very expensive.
    ??
    It's just oat flour!
  • Doreen said:
    ??
    It's just oat flour!

    I know, right! Not where I am! :/:smile:

    Oats flour is considered 'organic' and can only be found in organic 'specialty' shops. Most of us, who are wide awake, know that when that label is on everything, price tag is also very organic. :lol

    The cheapest Oats we have here is Tesco brand Oats. Very cheap to the extent that I could literally bathe in it! Makes no sense..but...yeah.....business thing is beyond me.
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    Tesco-operate? (Selling England By the Pound. Genesis)
    The 5% figure is just what I tried the first time, it worked. It may be possible to use less, I haven't tried that. 
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • @Belassi

    Yes. By Tesco, for Tesco, of Tesco, in Tesco. I live in Malaysia. Tesco is in abundance over here!

    I guess that you consciously or unconsciously targetted for 1M NaOH.

    I bought NaOH and realised that it is a monohydrate one! I did not know there are anhydrous and its hydrates! I admit that this is my first time handling NaOH. I pray to Strong Alkaline God that it protects me from all forms of strong alkali harm.

    So, for anhydrous one will be 4%. For monohydrate one will be 5.8%. Averaged these two I got 4.9%. This made me to think that you probably (unintentionally and unknowingly) went for 1M NaOH.
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Colloidal oatmeal: That reminds me of vegan milk alternatives which I regularly use for my protein shakes (I'm not vegan but milk gets "sour" in my shakes). These, not just the ones with oats but also rice, almond, soy etc. are colloidal suspensions. Out of convenience, I'd simply use one of those drinks if I felt like putting delicious food on my skin ;) .
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    Colloidal Oatmeal is actually regulated as an OTC skin protectant Active ingredient in the US.  So, any product containing it would be classified as an OTC drug product, particularly if you want to make Eczema claims.

    The easiest way to incorporate it is to disperse the colloidal oatmeal in a portion of the water phase, stir this well to create an "oatmeal slurry" and then gradually add it to your cream at cool down.  If you don't first make a slurry you're going to get oatmeal lumps in your cream that no amount of homogenization will reduce.

    It also tends to thin emulsions so you want to add it in small increments with vigorous stirring when your cream has cooled down to 40C or less.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • @Pharma
    Hey! I see that familiar Plumeria. Long time no chat! I do miss and think of you often behind this screen. And I do often re-read, re-think, and re-research WTF I asked you and what you shared with me. It is because with more and more data I gathered, more and more I learn/learnt, the more you share/shared, the more I communicate with other people, the more I "believe" that "pharmacists" like you are truly crazy about chemistry related to all things human. Only in my chemistry journey did I know that there are physical chemists, organic chemists. Ugh, the many chemists that I did not know before this!

    Assuming pharmacists know their shit, that is. Pharmacists here, where I live, are stupid AF and I never consider them "chemists" (or apothecarists) as what pharmacists were traditionally/archaically known as. They (the idiots here) do not compound their own drugs. I'm not a pharmacist but I know and do a lot more science than they do.

    Anyway, I decided to not use colloidal oat after learning that it is rather troublesome as it needs to be hydrolised.

    Errr, I mean not a must to be hydrolysed, probably is my perfectionism acting out. Hydrolysing it does make oat extremely 'fine' (and gel-ish) without using oat powder; I use instant oats and let 1M NaOH do its magic.

    Since @MarkBroussard says colloidal oat is actually an active skin protectant which I safely assume that it is not a claim thing, I might try colloidal oat just by itself without hydrolysing it. And also as what you mentioned, simply slap and slather that colloidal everything right from the carton/tin, why bother the extra steps!   ;)

    I will presume preserving that much organic matter will be painful. However, I do know that DMDM Hydantoin is the best preservative as it is not sensitive to any substances. nothing deactivates it, not temperature and not pH sensitive, covers the headspace. I am not selling my products so should be exceptionally fine using DMDM Hydantoin.
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