Combination of Geogard 221 & Leucidal Liquid SF - Cosmetic Science Talk

Combination of Geogard 221 & Leucidal Liquid SF

edited August 8 in Formulating
Good afternoon,

I am about to make this Vitamin C Serum (for my personal use only, I only expect it to last 1 to 2 months unless the L-Ascorbic Acid oxidizes before that).

This is the formula (pH 3.5):

Distilled Water    Q.S.
Sodium Lactate    3%
Panthenol    1%
Glycerin    1%
Ferulic Acid    0,5%
Polysorbate 80 *    1%
d-Alpha Tocopherol *    1%
Sodium Hyaluronate (RMW)    0,2%
1,3-Propanediol    30%
L-Ascorbic Acid    15%
Preservative(s)
   Q.S.

I live in Europe, so I cannot buy Liquid Germall Plus (my first option); I cannot use Geogard 221 with Potassium Sorbate because of the Vit. C,  so I was thinking of using a combination of Geogard 221 (1%) &  Leucidal Liquid SF (2%). Is that viable/safe?

Note: I have had a skin reaction to Phenoxyethanol in the past, and call me ignorant, but I a am a little bit afraid of parabens...

Thank you very much!

Comments

  • Geoguard ultra would be better.Use at 1% .
  • Hi DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ!

    Thank you for your prompt reply. I thought mixing Sodium
    Benzoate and Vit. C was also not a good idea...

  • I'd like to suggest using either L-Resveratrol or Pycnogenol (pine bark extract) as an antioxidant. Of the two, pine bark extract has no solubility issues but it is a dark brown colour.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • Hi Belassi!

    Thank you very much for your suggestion. Unfortunately, I can only find L-Resveratrol and Pycnogenol as oral supplements :(

  • edited August 8
    In that case, a possible fallback is green tea extract (high in EGCG), 0.2-0.5%; it is an indicator so you might get a pink colour in that pH. There is a commonality between this and pine bark extract.
    I have all three here, but for our vitamin C product, I use the pine, because it is the most potent and the L-Res, because of solubility issues, I only use that in a COSMOS item that has a lot of ethanol in it.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • Green tee is easier to get.

    Thank you very much for your generosity!
  • One last thing Belassi... If I was able to find the Pycnogenol (I am quite stubborn), what would be the right percentage for my recipe?
  • Hang on I'll check:
    My experimental notes record 0.3% L-Resveratrol (in 15% ethanol)
    And the other version (please note I am using not L-Ascorbic acid, but  L-Ascorbyl 2-phosphate 6-palmitate ) has 2% of pine bark extract from Bulk Actives in Keelung, Taiwan. You will probably need a higher % since the version of the vitamin I use is relatively stable and requires only 1%.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • Wow... You are amazing. I am so sad that I did not have a good chemistry teacher in school and always hated it... :#
  • edited August 8
    Very generous of you. I did teach chemistry at one point but in the world of cosmetic chemistry, I am self-taught (with the help of Perry's excellent resource, Harry's Cosmetology, Dermatology News, etc.)
    Bulk Actives is a good source of actives by the way. They do air mail.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • Once again, thank you!
  • Is the combination Potassium Sorbate / Vit. C a real issue? I know that it was already comment on this forum for the residual Benzene produced that is induced by light. I understand that potassium sorbate in formulation is used at acidic pH <5 and is mainly on the form of sorbic acid., thus at the concentration of use of both products it will no be an issue.   
  • Belassi, do you have any information about the green tea being an indicator? That's very interesting. We use a 90% EGCG standardized green tea extract and I would love to learn more about it as an indicator. Thank you!!
  • No, just practical experience. In basic solutions it turns brown. In acidic solutions it turns pink. See for yourself: Make a solution and test it with your pH meter. Add NaOH to turn it basic and make another solution, add citric acid. You will see what I mean. Many vegetable extracts display similar properties, the classic one is red cabbage.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • edited August 15

    This is the formula (pH 3.5):

    Distilled Water   Q.S.
    Sodium Lactate   3%
    Panthenol   1%
    Glycerin   1%
    Ferulic Acid   0,5%
    Polysorbate 80 *   1%
    d-Alpha Tocopherol *   1%
    Sodium Hyaluronate (RMW)   0,2%
    1,3-Propanediol   30%
    L-Ascorbic Acid   15%
    Preservative(s)
       Q.S.

    @MarkBroussard
    LOL I see your formula is a real hit, keep seeing this everywhere!.  :D 
  • I do hope it works!!

    In any case, I am waiting for the Pycnogenol to arrive (as Belassi suggested).

    I will keep you updated..

  • Isn't green tea extract no go with ascorbic acid- i've read somewhere lo-o-ong time ago that green tea has metals in it and combined together will oxidise the metals in green tea, or green tea will oxidise ascorbic- one of this, sorry cannot remember which is correct. :) for this same reason it's not recommended to drink green tea with lemon.
  • So... I have tried the formula twice and have encountered several problems (why am I not surprised...), not because of @MarkBroussard formula, but because of me.

    First, the ferulic acid would not solubilize in glycerin, I tried the second time with 1,3-Propanediol and that did work. I had also had problems when incorporating the hyaluronic acid, so the second time I included it once it had soaked in water for a while.

    I had also problems dissolving the ascorbic acid (I should have used a fine milled one).
     
    In order to make this even more horrible, I decided to add some vitamin e (1% mixed tocopherols) dissolved in polysorbate 80 (1%). It turned milky white. The geogard ultra did not dissolved completely in water and I threw it all down the drain.

    Next time, I will buy ultrafine ascorbic acid, dissolve the geogard in some glycerine instead of water and forget about the vitamin e.

    I just wanted to share my experience with you sou you could have a good laugh at my expense ;)

    By the way, @Belassi, I got some Pycnogenol but it turned into mud...  :#
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