Liquid Nitrogen in Thermal Water

Hello everyone, 

I am looking to fill aerosol cans with liquid nitrogen and thermal water. I was wondering if anyone knows at what pressure it should be filled, because I tried at 2 on my machine, but I don't think the can was pressurized enough to release some of the pressure when I pressed on the nozzle of the spray can.

So I would really appreciate it if someone could tell me what the process is...  
Tagged:

Comments

  • BelassiBelassi Member
    LIQUID nitrogen? Liquid nitrogen boils at -195.8C
    I think you've got a basic fact wrong there somewhere.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
  • johnbjohnb Member
    Compressed gas aerosols are unreliable and potentially dangerous.

    The amount (mass) of gas that can be safely charged into a standard aerosol can is almost immeasurably small such that the slightest leak or inadvertant opening of the valve in an inverted position and easily result in rapid/very rapid discharge of the propellant gas.

    Overcharging with gas can result in inflation/distortion of the can, violent release of the valve or explosion of the container - I've seen all of these happen.

    There is a good reason why aerosol propellants are as they are.
  • Bill_TogeBill_Toge Member, Professional Chemist
    you're better off using dimethyl ether
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
  • johnbjohnb Member
    I agree with Bill. Dimethyl ether is a good propellant material. I could never understand why it didn't (or has't) become more widely used.
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    edited May 2017
    @johnb - most hairsprays use DME because it has a good tolerance for water. This was required to meet the California VOC regulations of 55%.  It probably wasn't used more previously because it is more expensive than other propellants.
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    They are attempting to replicate a marketing model that is huge in France right now. "Thermal Water" (debatable, but hugely bunk) using Nitrogen as the propellant. Many claims of benefits are made, but they are all performed by the supplier themselves.

     http://www.labmuffin.com/what-is-thermal-water-and-how-does-it-work-in-skin-care/

    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    Evidently it's true that there's a fool born every minute, if people are wasting their money on such nonsense.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • johnbjohnb Member
    I first met with DME when DuPont introduced it as an aerosol propellant around 1980-82 under the name Dymel.

    DuPont were investigating the suitability of DME as an aerosol propellant particularly for fragrance products. Our work was very positive showing the DME was far superior in almost all respects to LPG propellants which were then systematically becoming replacements for CFC materials.
    DME was notably more expensive than LPGs but DuPont were assuring in that, with time, prices would become comparable. It seems, from what you say, Perry, this was not to be the case.
  • johnbjohnb Member
    Are these thermal water aerosols "bag-in-can"?

    This is the only way I can see that you can gain any reliability with compressed gas.
  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    Johnb, usually, it's called "Bag-on-valve", to emphasize that there's no connection between the can propellants (compressed air) and the interior product. Certainly, this is the technology I'd prefer to use - the nitrogen adds nothing to the performance of the product as far as I can tell.

    Personally, I wonder if the target products are using the liquid nitrogen mixed with the water to make a frozen slurry, and filling that.
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    Personally, I wonder if the target products are using the liquid nitrogen mixed with the water to make a frozen slurry, and filling that.
    I have worked with liquid nitrogen in a lab and what you suggest is impossible. Liquid nitrogen is a potentially dangerous material that requires training and special handling techniques to be safe.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @belassi:

    Yes, I think the "liquid nitrogen" was a typo or misunderstanding on the part of the OP.  I'm sure it's a can of water pressurized under nitrogen gas.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    Hmm. So that's why "Guinness is good for you." The bubbles in Guinness are dissolved nitrogen. Perhaps what is happening is that enough pressure is applied so that nitrogen dissolves in the water.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    It was very common practice for us to use Nitrogen Gas to purge certain solvents to reduce the dissolved oxygen content.  That's what I suspect is being done here, just at much higher pressures.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    I have had clients send me "samples" of these products. They are bag-on-valve systems with Nitrogen  GAS as the propellant. Perhaps someone from the EU can weigh-in, but from what I have seen, nitrogen gas is used more often in the EU than some of the propellants we routinely use here in the US.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • I believe propellant 152A is mostly used now which we are using for current aerosol product.Someone else please weigh in on this.
Sign In or Register to comment.