Looking For Cosmetic Chemist For Cannibis Infused Cosmetics in Cali - Cosmetic Science Talk

Looking For Cosmetic Chemist For Cannibis Infused Cosmetics in Cali

Hello,
I am currently in the start up phase of developing a skincare line infused with Cannibis, and I am looking for a R&D Chemist to work with on developing a formulas for my product line. I would love someone who has developed cannibis infused products before or is extremely interested in developing such products. 

Comments

  • There are various Cannibis-related ingredients.  When you say Cannibis, what specifically are you referring to .... Hemp Seed Oil, Cannabidiol ... ?
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • What are the attributes of cannabis derived ingredients that you feel will be useful in cosmetic products?
  • Just for curious, i can´t help you.
    I have tried hemp cold presed seed oil onto the skin and for eating. It´s not the same than infusing Cannabis  Sativa or Cannabis Indica or Cannabis ruderalis in any kind of oil or solvent (i have done it too) The purposes and results are differents. In Spain, Cannabis infused (Cannabidiol, CBD, THC...) is used for some kind of pain, or medical use, or other purposes, not for beauty. What are your products for?
  • I have consulted on several of these lines. I stress CONSULTED since the signature raw material (CBD Extract) is still a schedule one product in my state.
    The challenges are multifold. First off, there are many initial studies that purport an action of CBD but they have not yet been followed up on to a great extent. So (as is the case in many products) you must turn a blind eye to claims substantiation. Secondly, many of the assigned claims encroach upon the OTC monographs. While the Federal Government is not currently over ruling the States on the legality of the products, the FDA still has authority over OTC drugs. In fact in Washington State, the FDA has recently exercised this control.
    As far as Formulating, these products are not terribly difficult. The client MUST use a tested and standardized sample of the CBD Extract. The best products use a standardized CO2 Extract diluted in a carrier oil. This best facilitates the calculation and delivery of a metered dosage of the proposed active. Some lines use the CBD Oil (in Formulating, you can treat it as Hemp Seed Oil for all intents and purposes) but in my experience, the lines that use the oil are more positioned in the theoretical skin benefits than any drug like activity.
    Unless the poster wants to do the actual lab work and have someone advise on this, it is critical that they use a California-based Formulator. The actives in this case can not be shipped across state lines.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • Hello,
    Sorry for the late follow ups. I am looking to formulate products with CBD oil. Not the hemp CBD. Cannibis has antioxidants, which are great for skincare products. The oil also treats inflammation with Acne, excema, psoriasis. I am looking to start a full line of skicare from facial cleansers, exfoliators, mask, Oils, serums etc. 
  • Also @Microformulation are you based in California?
  • Because of the legislative restrictions on these products it is a very small market. It worth anyone's time and effort to formulate anything new and for any marketer to sell them?
  • I am not based in California. On the lines I consulted on it was by long distance. I can not Formulate as the materials are not legal in my State,
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • edited March 9
    @DCan:

    Do you know if your CBD is derived from Industrial Hemp or is it derived from Medicinal Marijuana Hemp?

    If the latter, do you have a THC assay on the CBD you plan on using?
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • edited March 9
    CBD is derived from Medical marijuana. Certain strains have a higher CBD to THC ratio (4:1 I believe). CBD has many purported effects, many of which are just now being examined in human trials. Many of the skin care claims are still poorly studied (single small study NIH studies) but I imagine as time goes on they will have larger samplings.

    I have consulted via distance since it is illegal for me to possess the actual raw materials. Most CBD sources are CO2 extracts diluted into an oil base so pretty easy to formulate. The real issues are shifting regulations (in some States they are practically writing them as they go), issues with encroaching on OTC monographs (the FDA will not overstep the state laws for medical/recreational use but will enforce OTC regs) and the still developing studies of efficacy.

    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • Been there. Done that. Zero effect. 
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • @BelassiI can see your point. Many of the studies are small or single subject studies. I am also waiting for more in-depth validated studies.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • Hi @MarkBroussard I will be using CBD not derived from hemp. @Belassi have you worked with such lines? I would love to know your opinion on the cannibis cosmetic market?
  • I can't yet legally sell such a product but there are various small companies producing products for "quiet" sale. I designed a fast-absorbing cream with 10% alcohol-extracted THC/CBD. The plant was high potency and 50% indica. Tried it on a couple of old people with arthritis. Had no effect on pain so I ceased the experiment.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • edited March 14
    Belassi, currently there is a legal vacuum in Spain regarding private cannabis clubs. Near my work there is one where I participate and they make an ointment based on decaboxylated CBD (different extracts), capsaicin and essential oil of gaultheria procumbens, cinnamomum camphora and menthol among other ingredients. I have to say about my experience and other people, it works for muscle and joint pains. The question would be whether it is due to cannabis or it is due to the other ingredients, or it is due to all of them.




  • @BelassiI can see your point. Many of the studies are small or single subject studies. I am also waiting for more in-depth validated studies.

    I have helped design several muscle pain relief products but they used typical counter-irritants (Menthol, Eucalyptus) in addition to the CBD Oil.

    As I say always, the jury is still out. I believe as these products are legalized on a wider scale in the US, larger more validated studies will e conducted.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • In my opinion it's the other ingredients. Here in Mexico they sell "peyote balm" which supposedly contains peyote. Maybe it does, at 0.01%. But the active ingredient, as I can easily tell by the smell, is salicylate. Still, it might be a good marketing ploy. 
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • edited March 14
    yes, i think marketing ploy is very important when you sell something (but is more important be realistic and not exaggerating).
    I am going to propose that they make an ointment with the same ingredients but without the derivatives of cannabis. Although this would be only an empirical experiment and not one based on any scientific study. I guess they would not want because as they sell and defend the benefits of cannabis, what would happen If they realize that the ointment works the same without cannabis? Haha

    And about salycilate, is it listed in the INCI? i make this question because I'm allergic to salicylic acid, I often wonder if that compound is not listed in some cosmetics I use what could happen. I do not know if it is possible that this ingredient is not listed on any label.



  • It is usually listed as Methyl salicylate or Wintergreen oil.

    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • Thanks for your reply. I think I misunderstood my question, I have allergy to acetylsalicylic acid (aspirin) I think that just as I have this allergy to this compound, it can be extended to its derivatives, even put onto the skin.
    I will be careful about Methyl salicylate.

    I am confused and surprised. This ointment has essential oil of wintergreen, Methyl salicylate! I have to say that I have not noticed any allergy symptoms but I will stop using it, for this reason and for others of which I am realizing now.
    I am grateful that you helped me to discover this.

    Another question would be whether it is possible that some cosmetic or personal care product may have a small amount of salicylic acid and is not in the INCI.

  • You are right to be careful. I had a very unpleasant experience a little while ago after using "Icy Hot" a product labelled as containing "menthol" but which was actually methyl salicylate. I had absorbed sufficient through the skin to cause a toxic reaction. The capsaicin (chile pepper extract) is supposed to have a pain-killing effect. I really doubt that including cannabis derivatives in a topical product will work as a pain killer.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • edited March 15
    ointment ingredients:
    Hemp seed oil, Caprylic / capric triglycerides, Copernicia cerifera, cannabis extracts CBD (futura 75) & THC (Northern Lights), capsaicin, essential oils of gaultheria procumbens, cinnamomum camphora, rosmarinus officinalis, menthol.

    Belassi, i´ve seen the effect "Icy hot"  that you are referring to, happens in this ointment i thought it is due to cinnamomum camphora and menthol, not to wintergreen (gaultheria). I have to say i love the smell of this liniment.
    I never expected salicylic acid, salicylate or others could be gaultheria procumbens derivatives. I knew about Salix alba :)

    DCan, But if you want infused CBD not from hemp but from Cannabis I or S, you´ll also get THC. I don´t know if THC for beauty is appropiate. Maybe microorganisms onto the skin will be very happy :) Or you get it without THC? how? Do you separate it somehow? Or are you going to use THC as well?

  • You seem to be ignoring capsaicin as a source of skin irritation. Remember this material is the active principle of the chili pepper and even minute amounts applied to the skin can produce profuse irritation, burning and erythema.

    As a point of fact, gaultheria oil (wintergreen oil) comprises over 90% methyl salicylate and Cinnamonum camphora oil contains about 50% camphor. The product you describe will have a very strong fragrance redolent of a sports locker room. Similar formulations have been available (in the UK, at least) for about 100 years or more for the relief of pain from sports injuries, arthritis and muscular pain.

    CBD & THC are very bulky molecules and I am extremely doubtful that they will have any effect at all when applied to the skin. The way to find out is to produce samples with and without the materials in question.
  • This is exactly how it smells :) i used it because my horrible neck and back pain, and after swimming i put this and it was very relaxing and pleasuring, the icy-hot results recomfortable. The pain down.
     
    "Gaultheria oil (wintergreen oil) comprises over 90% methyl salicylate" this amount is too much for an allergic person to this compound
    "You seem to be ignoring capsaicin as a source of skin irritation."  This must be the very very hot sensation too.

    I do not know if I ask them to make me one without cannabis, salicylic, and capsaicin. I would try it but I can not be the guinea pig, I need something that works for sure.
    I need a cream without methyl salicylate that works, under prescription now. I need to take aspirin tests again, maybe I no longer have intolerance.
    I will discover many things through this thread :)

  • Hi again, sorry I´m turning this topic around and only for curiosity to see ingredientes I am looking for similar ointments without the derivatives of cannabis and indeed, in Spain they also exist for a long time.

    I am realizing something that I have not taken into account until now. While this balm with cannabis costs 100 gr. X €, a similar one without cannabis costs X:3 €. If we do not know for sure if the most expensive ingredient in the formula actually works ... It's a very big price difference.

    DCan, in Spain for example 25 gr. of hemp cost Y €, 25 gr of cannabis (sativa, for example) 38xY €. If you want to extract only CBD it is cheaper to make it from hemp, If you want it with THC will raise the price a lot (?). Do you have any assay about the benefits of THC on the skin for beauty? I'm just asking to learn.

    I think it's true that there are not enough studies on cannabis and less for beauty, but I think if no one cares about this substance, if no one talks about it or test it ... etc, there will be fewer studies yet!

    thanks, greetings
  • Exactly. The cost of THC is so high that I can't see it ever being a cost-effective ingredient, even if it worked, which I doubt. The amount of product I created was limited to a few test jars, for that reason.
    However I have become interested in doing my own extractions as a result. Very tempted to buy a small installation for doing supercritical CO2 essential oil extractions. There's a small kit available for $350 complete with compressor that does the job.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • edited March 17
    If you get a chance to do it and you fancy trying it again, really sounds great.
    It will be much more professional than when I make extractions at home (not CO2 and of course without machinery) without being able to analyze them and not know their compounds exactly. There is THC is evident but i don´t know in what quantities etc.
    What use will you give it? I would love to use a kind of alembique that I have at home to extract essential cannabis oil, my father built what I think is an alambique, I have all the books and notes of my father, he was an agronomist engineer but I still do not know how to use it.

    As far as you can, and within your borders of secrets, please keep us informed. :)

    I have found body care products made from hemp CBD (INCI missing)

    http://www.alviolor.com/producto/locion-hidratante-corporal-canamo-body-milk-canamo/
  • The really annoying thing is that I found a kit for around $350 for CO2 extraction and now I can't find it again :(
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • They are getting popular in the US and I will see if I can find one. The Recreational Marijuana Industry uses CO2 Extraction to create many of the oils.

    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications.
  • Yes, that's what it was for. I was impressed by their knowledge of using different pressures and temperatures to extract various fractions. I imagine it could be used to extract e.o.'s from pretty much anything, in small quantities.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • edited March 18
    This is for playful use, what do you think about this for me? It would take a while to buy it if it's worth it. It is not about CO2 extraction or steam distillation, but it is a way of heating the cannabinoids with steam.

    https://www.alchimiaweb.com/classic-volcano-vaporizador-product-998.php

    https://www.volcanovaporizer.com/shop_us/en/about/

    "I found a kit for around $350 for CO2 extraction and now I can't find it again" It seems be very very cheap. Have you found it?

    Best wishes for your projects.


  • no... no good.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • Belassi, what is no good? Volcano for smoking or your extraction kit? why?
  • volcano for smoking it, OK. But the thing I saw is a proper kit in stainless steel using supercritical CO2 and a small compressor. I thought I'd be able to find it again easily enough but no... I will have to spend hours going back through browser history I suppose.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • I think this is the closest. But it still needs a vacuum pump. https://www.bestvaluevacs.com/mini-x.html
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • Hi everyone the conversation on here has been great and a I have learned several things through this thread. 
    @kloe I am looking to separate the THC from cannibis in most of the products. I learned at a Marijuana conference I attended that this is possible. I am not exactly sure on the how. Not much research has been done on the beauty cannibis industry, but it is developing and the small research I have encountered speak of benefits for skincare concerns such as acne, excema, dry skin. Benefits also claimed are antioxidants which are used in many beauty products marketing efforts. I would like to use THC in one of the products. I am looking for a chemist willing to develop a product to test out.
    my apologies for the late reply.
  • DCan, good luck with your project. If I were you, I would contract a cosmetic chemist, and a laboratory to analyze and make all possible tests concerning this substance. I hope you can tell us your progress.

    Belassi, How are u doing?! personally I have given myself a rest with this substance. I feel like I am saturated and I am also trying to focus on mathematics. incompatibility!

    Regards.


  • Oh I don't know really. I am giving a 2 hour Math class in 5 minutes. Not bad for a 70 year old. Later on I'll get into the lab.
    Design of anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics. In-house label and box design capability.
  • Thanks so much @Kloe I will update y'all for sure!
  • "Hello,
    Sorry for the late follow ups. (I am guessing you were stoned.) I am looking to formulate products with CBD oil. Not the hemp CBD. (Because hemp CBD and some other CBD from somewhere else is.. somehow different?) Cannibis (as opposed to .. hemp.. which is .. cannabis?) has antioxidants, which are great for skincare products. (Then why not just use tocopherols in vitamin E?) The oil also treats inflammation with Acne, excema, psoriasis. (You forgot to cite your references to the scholarly articles on the double blind placebo controlled studies to support these medical claims.) I am looking to start a full line of skincare from facial cleansers, exfoliators, mask, Oils, serums etc. "



    @Dcan, you truly have no idea what you are getting into. Unless you are a scammer, like all of the other CBD peddlers:

    https://www.fda.gov/newsevents/publichealthfocus/ucm435591.htm

    https://www.fda.gov/newsevents/publichealthfocus/ucm484109.htm

    I'll expect you will get similar letters and lawsuits for your product, which will ultimately fail.

    I love to hear my hippy dippy friends say the government and FDA inspectors are "taking over medical cannabis, taking over CBD"... and then I have them look at how many people in these reports and analysis by the FDA are selling this BS that contains NO CBD AT ALL! What a giant joke. Fools. Anyone want to buy a bridge in Brooklyn?

    Well, if it is a medicine, those publicly funded science institutions that protect the public sector from frauds and snake oil peddlers should be regulating it.

    Look at the amount of fraud that are in these FDA reports about these CBD scammers! So many people selling CBD... that contains no CBD... come on... if your kid were having seizures... you want to buy products from these unregulated snake oil salesmen? Not only do these people need to be shut down, they need to be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail, like snake oil peddlers of lore. Rick Simpson, oil, etc. What a load of BS.

    If CBD is a medicine - and it was found in clinical trials to have therapeutic effect by GW Pharmaceuticals long before it was claimed to be a "supplement" by the snake oil peddlers - then treat it as a medicine. That is the law. You don't get to sell a medicine as a cosmetic company. There is no grandfathering in for the "supplement sellers" on this one, kids. The law is set. If CBD is a medicine, you better be a pharmaceutical company producing these products.

    Or, you better have been selling CBD as a supplement long before 2005 when GW Pharm did their trials. And no one has yet stepped up to that plate with any sory of integrity. It's a done deal. CBD is a medicine (though still schedule 1, but go figure).

    Scamming hippy dippy pseudo-science snake oil salesmen should not be selling this. Only federally licensed laboratories should sell pharmaceuticals, and let's rid the world of these scammers.

    Those reports are damning. I have never seen such scamming that is not being forcefully shut down by the FDA. But, as noted before, the FDA has few teeth. Hopefully the FTC will step in.

    But the FDA can shut down the CBD scam, as CBD is a medicine, long before it was a "supplement" of the scammers and shysters.
  • I think the confusion here is the source of the CBD oil.  There are two types:

    (1) CBD derived from Medical Marijuana which will contain THC

    (2) CBD derived from commercial hemp which will not contain THC, can be used in cosmetics and is legal in all 50 states.

    @Dcan ... if you need a referral to a reputable supplier of industrial hemp-derived CDB, drop an e-mail to me.

    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

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