Sodium Lactate - Cosmetic Science Talk

Sodium Lactate

edited January 7 in General
Because the discussion about exfoliating creams was started by someone else, I made a new one here.

@MarkBroussard, you gave me the advice to use sodium lactate to adjust the pH in an exfoliating cream with lactic acid.
I have contacted my supplier, and the only product they sell containing sodium lactate is this:
INCI: Aqua, Sodium lactate, Lactic Acid, Glycerin, Serine, Urea, Sodium Chloride, Lauryl Diethylendiaminoglycerine, Laryl, Aminopropylglycerine, Allantoin, Alcohol Denat.

The product is titled as 'natural moisturizing factor', which you can add to your own cream in 1-2%. What do you think of this product, could it be something useful? 
Do you have any idea what 'laryl' can be? 

By the way, anyone is welcome to comment on this!

Comments

  • Sodium Lactate ... www.ingredientstodiefor.com

    What you are referencing above is something completely different.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • @MarkBroussard, good news! My supplier can get sodiumlactate aswell, so no need for me to search outside this country:-) 
  • You asked about "laryl".
    It is a typo in the LOI and it should be combined with the next entry to give lauryl aminopropyl glycine.
  • edited January 8
    @johnb, thank you!
    I also couldn't find what 'Lauryl Diethylendiaminoglycerine' is. Maybe it's a German synonym? I changed the 'glycerine' to glycine and now it's clear.

    If you don't mind me asking, what do you think of this product by the way? Would it be useful to add to a moisturizer in the 1-2% they advice to increase hydration?
  • The product you itemise in the first post seems a somewhat random mixture of substances lacking in any logic as to why they are present - eg what is the point of the sodium chloride or the apparently tiny amount of alcohol?

    There is not much "natural" about lauryl aminopropyl glycine or diethylendiaminoglycerine. Even so, it is widely promoted.

    Whether it would be useful to add to your product, I am unable to say - it's a case of try it and see.
  • Ok. Thanks for your opinion!
  • @AnnaLavar:

    If you google Natural Moisturizing Factor, you will find some good information on what chemicals comprise NMF in human skin.  Your best bets for something simple and effective as moisturizers are hyaluroinc acid, sodium lactate, sodium PCA, Glycerin ... the first 3 are all part of human NMF.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • @MarkBroussard, thank you for this information.


    I'm so glad my supplier will start selling sodium lactate aswell! They also sell hyaluronic acid (high molecular weight), but it's very expensive €30,- ($31,50) for only 5 grams... I don't want to mess up a batch with that!
    I already bought their ferulic acid for €9,- for 5 grams for the vitamin C serum.

    I read in a post regarding hyaluronic acid and ferulic acid, that you mentioned a formula for a vitamin C serum, which I want to try.
    This was your formula:

    Water - QS
    Sodium Lactate - 3%
    Panthenol - 1%
    Glycerin - 1%
    Ferulic Acid - 0.5%
    Hyaluronic Acid - 0.2% (Regular Molecular Weight)
    1,3-Propanediol - 30%
    Ascorbic Acid - 20%
    Preservative - QS

    I will only make it for myself and make fresh batches every 2 weeks, so I'll leave the hyaluronic acid out of it.
    I have 4 questions regarding this formula:
    I read I could replace the 1,3-propanediol by the 1,2 which is the easy to get propyleneglycol.
    I will store the serum in an airless container and keep it refridgerated.

    • Can I adjust the amount of glycerin to 5%, then propyleneglycol to 26%?
    • Is it possible to make a larger amount of the dissolved ferulic acid slurry in advance, which I can use the needed amount from every 2 weeks?
    • If that is possible, how long would this ferulic acid/glycerin/water slurry be stable with and without preservative?
    • Should I add vitamin E? (I have no intention in selling it , so no patent worries).
    Many thanks in advance. I'm looking forward in making it!

  • Glycerin at 5% would be such a sticky mess that you would not want it on you skin ... but, yes, you can, but I would not advise it.

    W/O Hyaluronic Acid, the serum will be water-thin, so you might want to add a thickener ... Xanthan Gum or whatever you may have on hand.

    I don't know about the slurry, but I generally prefer to mix everything fresh.


    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • Ok, thanks.
    I'll keep the 1% glycerin to avoid the stickiness.
    By the way, the company selling the ferulic acid gave a formula for a C/E/ferulic acid formula aswell with 25% (!) glycerin. And with 15% LAA the formula didn't contain anything to make the pH higher, also no warnings.... A shame.
  • I almost forgot. If I want to add vitamin E, which emulsifying component should I add in what quantity?
  • I do have polysorbate 80, can I use this?
  • @AnnaLavar:

    Based on your posts that I have read, it seems you are dealing with suppliers who simply don't appear to know much about what they are doing ... perhaps you can find more professional suppliers and stop reading the DIY blogs ... they are generally full of nonsense written by people who don't know what they're talking about and have no professional training.

    Yes, Polysorbate 80 is fine.  And, you really only need about 0.5% Vitamin E.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • edited January 9
    I hate to disagree with Mark, but here is a COSMOS-compliant formula with 8% glycerine that I recently made, it's pretty good. It needs an airless container due to the ethanol component. I used it to make a resveratrol cream (because ethanol is about the only useful solvent).

    Phase A

    Glyceryl stearate SE 5.5%
    Stearic acid 1.5%
    Cetearyl alcohol 3%
    Cegesoft VP 1% (I used kpnangan butter)
    Cetiol RLF 8% (I used Schercemol ester 185 instead)
    Cegesoft PS6 vegetable oil 6% (I used jojoba oil instead)
    Myritol 312 6% (I used Myritol 318 instead)
    Tocopherol 0.5%
    Argan oil 1% (I used Mamey oil instead)
    Xanthan gum 0.2%

    Phase B
    Glycerin 8%
    Water 44.1%

    Phase C
    Ethanol 15%
    Fragrance 0.2%

    Special interests: anti-aging creams, gels, and serums; sulphate-free shampoos; and therapeutic cosmetics.
  • edited January 9
    @MarkBroussard,
    Then if I use your formula and leave out the hyaluronic acid and add some vitamin E, could it look like this? 

    Water - QS
    Sodium Lactate - 3%
    Panthenol - 1% : I use a 75% aqueous solution :1,33% 
    Glycerin - 1%
    Ferulic Acid - 0.5%
    Hyaluronic Acid - 0.2% (RMW) Xanthan Gum 0,2 - 1%
    1,3-Propanediol - 30% 1,2 Propanediol 30%
    Ascorbic Acid - 20%
    Preservative - QS
    dl-α tocopherol - 0,5%
    Polysorbate 80 - 0,5% ?
    How should I adjust the preparation at (3) the xanthan gum.
    And how/when do I add the polysorbate in this?
    (1)  Add Sodium Lactate, Panthenol to water.
    (2)  Add Glycerin to Ferulic Acid and mix to form a slurry.  Drizzle the slurry into the Water and heat to 80C to dissolve the Ferulic Acid 
    (Note:  Ferulic Acid is a very fluffy powder than is very difficult to wet ... it simply floats on the water.  Making a slurry solves this problem)
    (3)  (Cool down to 40C and add the Hyaluronic Acid through a sifter while stirring the water.  You can either let it sit for 3 hours to hydrate or mix it in with a homogenizer.  The regular weight Hyaluronic Acid with thicken the serum besides providing a moisture film-barrier.)
    (4)  Add individually and in sequence while stirring:  1-3 Propanediol, Ascorbic Acid, Preservative.
    (Note:  This formulation yields a native pH of 3.5 without having to add Citric Acid or other pH adjuster.)

    Thanks!

  • Actually, you can eliminate the Glycerin altogether and just make the slurry out of Panthenol and Ferulic Acid.

    Pre-mix the Polysorbate-80 and Tocopherol ... you'll need about 3% Polysorbate-80 for 0.5% Tocopherol.

    Thicken up with Xanthan Gum as the last step ... try using 0.5% Xanthan to start. 
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • edited January 9
    @MarkBroussard , thank you.

    So then:
    (1) Add sodium lactate to water.
    (2) Add d-panthenol aqueous solution to ferulic acid to form a slurry. Drizzle slurry into the water (with the sodium lactate or apart?) and heat to 80 C to dissolve ferulic acid. (Is panthenol stable to heat at this temperature?)
    (3) Cool down and add individually while stirring: propylene glycol, ascorbic acid, preservative, mixture of the tocopherol + 3% polysorbate 80. (Or should I add the whole water phase to the tocopherol mixture?) Does it need to be water to oil or oil to water in this case?
    (4) Disperse the xanthan gum.

  • Add Sodium Lactate to water.  

    Prepare the Panthenol + Ferulic Acid slurry is a separate vessel and add it to the Sodium Lactate/Water ... Heat to 80C ... you may get some D-Panthenol racemization to L-Panthenol at 80C, but no big deal.

    Cool, add the rest of the ingredients.  Add the Polysorbate + Tocopherol mixture to the water phase with stirring.

    Disperse Xanthan (It helps if you make a Xanthan slurry ... you can use either Glycerin or Propylene Glycol to pre-hydrate the Xanthan so it does not clump)
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    Provides Formulation Development and Lab-Scale Contract Manufacturing Services.  See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com

  • Thank you very much!
  • Anna - just to add my two cents (hope it helps in some small way): Sodium Lactate is a very common ingredient for natural soapmakers. You might be able to source it from a soaper's supply type of business in your area.
  • @KMYoungster, I have found a supplier! :-) And you're right, a soap company in this area also sells it.
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