Retinol microcaps and Salicylic acid

ArismacArismac Member
edited July 2016 in Formulating
Greetings all,

I am trying to prepare a water based (oil in water) cosmetic formula to which I want to add Vitamin A (Retinol) microcaps (3% - Cool Down Phase) and salicylic acid (2% - Water Phase) designed for people with acne and similar skin problems.

Is there likely to be a problem with these two ingredients?

Thank you in advance. Perhaps this is also the right time to mention that I am quite willing to pay for answers to questions like this but am unsure how to go about making contact with qualified persons.

Cheers
Mac

Comments

  • I think I should mention that I have been advised to use an, as yet unknown, quantity of sodium bicarbonate to produce sodium salicylate before adding the salicylic acid to the water phase. This will obviously also have the effect of raising the pH closer to 5.0 - 5.5 where I would like it to be.

    Mac
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    Vitamin A is reeeeaaallly not the same as Retinol. Close, but not the same.

    Retinol was proposed as an OTC for acne but it is not on the OTC monograph. As such any mention of a link between the retinol and acne would make your product unauthorized and not marketable in the US.

    I would look at some of the products Salvona has for both the Retinol and the Salicylic acid. They are encapsulated in a safflower liposome and water solube. More expensive but easier to use. Salicylic acid can be a challenge to solubulize and would Salicylic acid itself would not be water soluble. You will need to use a solvent such as DPG or PG.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • So what advice did you find to recommend sodium salycilate as an anti acne additive? Why would you believe it has the same effect as salycilic acid?
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    Also, technically you would migrate off the allowable FDA Monograpghs here in the US with Sodium Salicylate. They are clear that it is the salicylic acid that is allowed, not a salt.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • Good evening (morning here) gentlemen and many thanks for your response.

    Belassi the following was copied and pasted from a suppliers web site in Australia. It was in fact this comment that led to my origional question. Having done a lot of surfing around now I think it would be my best option to formulate two creams. One for morning containing SA and one for evening containing Retinol.

    Thank you for pointing out to me that Retinol and Vit A are similar but not the same.

    Salicylic acid can be very tricky to add into an emulsion formulation (A cream or lotion) as it is not that soluble in water or oils.   One option is to neutralise it into sodium salicylate by reacting it with sodium bicarbonate.  This will fizz in water until the reaction is complete, the salt is just as effective for the skin as the acid but has less solubility issues.

    I am still in the market for paid assistance.

    Mac
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    edited July 2016
    Again, the US FDA OTC monograph only allows the acid form, not any salts.

    When you post something such as the italicized statement above, a source would be great. This would make it easier to qualify the credentials of the author. We defined a citation standard in our SOP's recently. No blogs. Should be to a Journal submission or Academic standard. The credentials of the author should be reviewed. Do you have the original source?

    Just now I found the citation. It is from an Amzon sales page, not a Journal. The seller (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Salicylic-Acid-Powder-500g-Skin-Care-Products-Treating-Acne-And-Pimple-Prone-skin/32604289940.html) makes the claim but doesn't provide substantiating documents. Not to beat a dead horse, but you must be discerning on using and citing information from a simple google search.

    Lastly I did look and saw a very slim minority of products that contain Sodium salicylate. The material is far down the ingredient list (below the 1% line) and it is not claimed as an active. See

    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • ArismacArismac Member
    edited July 2016

    Believe me, Mark I have been a professional practitioner (now retired) for far too many years not to know what it is like to have people quote that “authority for everything, Dr Google" to me, which is why I asked here of course.

    My quote came from a retailer of SA in Sydney Australia named NewDirections.

    I am also very cautious of purchasing via Aliexpress and Alibaba unless I can obtain samples and have them thoroughly tested before using. I then retest the consignment.


  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    I am inferring that you are in Australia? If you are looking for a Consultant, check with the Australian Society of Cosmetic Chemistry. I have sent people to them for referrals and they were able to help.

    I am glad you see the problem with Google as a reference sources. No offense to you, but if you follow this forum long enough you will see posters lead with a long list of google citations (usually from Mommy Bloggers) as their sole research material.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
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